Carpenter won't give me an itemised receipt

awkwardpanda

Section62 said:

awkwardpanda said:

It's become less about the cost now and more about their resistance to what I think is a perfectly normal request that would literally take 5 mins to do.

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

It isn't normal.  They gave you a lump sum quote so they will invoice you for a lump sum.  There is no obligation on them to provide itemised billing, and doing so is likely to take a lot more than '5 mins to do'.  Would you now be willing to pay more to the trader at his hourly charge rate to cover the time taken to give you an itemised invoice?

They are probably assuming you want to know this information so you can dispute each amount charged and take up an inordinate amount of their time arguing about it.  If it is 'less about the cost now' and more about the principle, then just punish them by not giving them any more work.

awkwardpanda said:

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

They could, but they didn't have to.  You were free to ignore their quote because it didn't meet your requirements and looked for someone else instead.

I was already questioning the cost not quite adding up from the start and what definitely would have taken 5 minutes would have answered that.  They had to add it up to give me a very specific figure so that work has been done, I just wanted to see it. Simple.

Trust me I would have gone elsewhere if I was prepared another 4 months through poor communication!  Try waiting a week each time without a reply and having to chase.  I also asked for a quote for a different job last year and never even got a reply after chasing it, so this was actually their second chance at their first job with me.

They only have themselves to blame if they have wasted a lot of time, as I made a very simple request that could be easily answered without fuss.

Isthisforreal99

awkwardpanda said:

Section62 said:

awkwardpanda said:

It's become less about the cost now and more about their resistance to what I think is a perfectly normal request that would literally take 5 mins to do.

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

It isn't normal.  They gave you a lump sum quote so they will invoice you for a lump sum.  There is no obligation on them to provide itemised billing, and doing so is likely to take a lot more than '5 mins to do'.  Would you now be willing to pay more to the trader at his hourly charge rate to cover the time taken to give you an itemised invoice?

They are probably assuming you want to know this information so you can dispute each amount charged and take up an inordinate amount of their time arguing about it.  If it is 'less about the cost now' and more about the principle, then just punish them by not giving them any more work.

awkwardpanda said:

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

They could, but they didn't have to.  You were free to ignore their quote because it didn't meet your requirements and looked for someone else instead.

I was already questioning the cost not quite adding up from the start and what definitely would have taken 5 minutes would have answered that.  They had to add it up to give me a very specific figure so that work has been done, I just wanted to see it. Simple.

Trust me I would have gone elsewhere if I was prepared another 4 months through poor communication!  Try waiting a week each time without a reply and having to chase.  I also asked for a quote for a different job last year and never even got a reply after chasing it, so this was actually their second chance at their first job with me.

They only have themselves to blame if they have wasted a lot of time, as I made a very simple request that could be easily answered without fuss.

You are the only one that sees this is a simple request. To be honest they are being way too polite with you. 

You are not entitled to what you want. Time to move on and stop wasting their time, and yours.

Section62

awkwardpanda said:

Section62 said:

awkwardpanda said:

It's become less about the cost now and more about their resistance to what I think is a perfectly normal request that would literally take 5 mins to do.

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

It isn't normal.  They gave you a lump sum quote so they will invoice you for a lump sum.  There is no obligation on them to provide itemised billing, and doing so is likely to take a lot more than '5 mins to do'.  Would you now be willing to pay more to the trader at his hourly charge rate to cover the time taken to give you an itemised invoice?

They are probably assuming you want to know this information so you can dispute each amount charged and take up an inordinate amount of their time arguing about it.  If it is 'less about the cost now' and more about the principle, then just punish them by not giving them any more work.

awkwardpanda said:

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

They could, but they didn't have to.  You were free to ignore their quote because it didn't meet your requirements and looked for someone else instead.

I was already questioning the cost not quite adding up from the start and what definitely would have taken 5 minutes would have answered that.  They had to add it up to give me a very specific figure so that work has been done, I just wanted to see it. Simple.

Unless there's some missing information, you are making some assumptions there.  He quoted you a lump sum, so only had to decide what lump sum would cover his costs and profit. It wouldn't be necessary to add up anything to come up with a number - he could use the =RANDBETWEEN(X,Y)/100 function in an excel spreadsheet to give you a quote to a penny, if he so wished.

Quotations are typically more of an artform than a science.  The final number will often be adjusted depending on whether the job is wanted or not, and quite likely on the expected difficulty of dealing with a customer and getting paid by them.

awkwardpanda said:

Trust me I would have gone elsewhere if I was prepared another 4 months through poor communication!  Try waiting a week each time without a reply and having to chase.  I also asked for a quote for a different job last year and never even got a reply after chasing it, so this was actually their second chance at their first job with me.

You went with this guy because you didn't get any better quotes and you didn't want to wait any longer.  Some folk would take the difficulty in getting quotes as a hint that for all his/her faults, this outfit at least offered a price and agreed to do the job, therefore paying what you agreed to pay and moving on might have been a sensible approach.

awkwardpanda

Section62 said:

awkwardpanda said:

Section62 said:

awkwardpanda said:

It's become less about the cost now and more about their resistance to what I think is a perfectly normal request that would literally take 5 mins to do.

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

It isn't normal.  They gave you a lump sum quote so they will invoice you for a lump sum.  There is no obligation on them to provide itemised billing, and doing so is likely to take a lot more than '5 mins to do'.  Would you now be willing to pay more to the trader at his hourly charge rate to cover the time taken to give you an itemised invoice?

They are probably assuming you want to know this information so you can dispute each amount charged and take up an inordinate amount of their time arguing about it.  If it is 'less about the cost now' and more about the principle, then just punish them by not giving them any more work.

awkwardpanda said:

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

They could, but they didn't have to.  You were free to ignore their quote because it didn't meet your requirements and looked for someone else instead.

I was already questioning the cost not quite adding up from the start and what definitely would have taken 5 minutes would have answered that.  They had to add it up to give me a very specific figure so that work has been done, I just wanted to see it. Simple.

Unless there's some missing information, you are making some assumptions there.  He quoted you a lump sum, so only had to decide what lump sum would cover his costs and profit. It wouldn't be necessary to add up anything to come up with a number - he could use the =RANDBETWEEN(X,Y)/100 function in an excel spreadsheet to give you a quote to a penny, if he so wished.

Quotations are typically more of an artform than a science.  The final number will often be adjusted depending on whether the job is wanted or not, and quite likely on the expected difficulty of dealing with a customer and getting paid by them.

awkwardpanda said:

Trust me I would have gone elsewhere if I was prepared another 4 months through poor communication!  Try waiting a week each time without a reply and having to chase.  I also asked for a quote for a different job last year and never even got a reply after chasing it, so this was actually their second chance at their first job with me.

You went with this guy because you didn't get any better quotes and you didn't want to wait any longer.  Some folk would take the difficulty in getting quotes as a hint that for all his/her faults, this outfit at least offered a price and agreed to do the job, therefore paying what you agreed to pay and moving on might have been a sensible approach.

I'm quite shocked by the response to be honest.  I thought and still do think it is a reasonable and minor request.  This was actually the most expensive quote, but other carpenters weren't available for months or didn't reply at all.  I was losing the will to live to even get a reply!

awkwardpanda

GardenBirdWatcher said:

awkwardpanda said:

I probably wouldn't use them again as communication was so terrible and protracted.

And they almost certainly wouldn't be interested in doing any more work for you as you're showing yourself to be a nightmare customer.

Be happy that you actually found a tradesman that did a job that you were happy with at a price you were happy to pay, and move on with your life.

Wanting to know what something cost = nightmare customer.  A little dramatic.

DE_612183

You've had a number of responses to this thread which all basically say the same thing.

If I was you I'd move on - you are clearly not hearing what you want to hear.

GardenBirdWatcher

awkwardpanda said:

GardenBirdWatcher said:

awkwardpanda said:

I probably wouldn't use them again as communication was so terrible and protracted.

And they almost certainly wouldn't be interested in doing any more work for you as you're showing yourself to be a nightmare customer.

Be happy that you actually found a tradesman that did a job that you were happy with at a price you were happy to pay, and move on with your life.

Wanting to know what something cost = nightmare customer.  A little dramatic.

No, your repeated complaining about something that is of absolutely no importance whatsoever to anyone except for you is what makes you a nightmare customer. You are the dictionary definition of being more trouble than you are worth.

You agreed a price and the work was done, so what do you hope to gain by getting for the itemised cost of every single item used. If they actually provided it and you discover that they marked up all the prices by x% or randomly priced items, what are you going to do? Take them to court to get a refund on the difference?

I guess you're one of those lucky people who has zero troubles in their life, so have to create problems to give themselves something to complain about.

WIAWSNB

As someone already asked, APanda, what would you do with this information in any case?

There's a sparky on here who said it's perfectly ok to add a premium to the full retail price of parts, so they get their significant 'trade' discount, then they charge the customer the full RRP + a bonus on top. 

Bottom line is, it doesn't matter. You asked for a quote, they gave you one, you accepted it.

If the job had taken them an hour more than they'd anticipated, would you mind if they billed you for that? 

If the doors weren't in stock the day they began the work so they had to drive 50 miles to the next outlet, would you mind if they billed you for this? If one door had been found to be warped and they had to return it, would you ditto?

If they'd been desperate for the work and had effectively knocked 25% off the original quote, would you mind? 

If, on the other hand, they were really busy, and just hated fitting doors in any case, so added a 30% premium to ease their pain, would you mind?

I suspect I can guess your answers, but the correct one is, 'No' x 5. Because the quote is the quote.

saajan_12

awkwardpanda said:

Exodi said:

awkwardpanda said:

Afterwards I still wanted the itemised list of parts used priced up for me as I was suspicious they had significantly overcharged on the fixings for the doors.

How could you be suspicious you have been overcharged for the fixings if you don't know what they charged you for them?

Out of curiosity what would you prefer:

They build their margin into the price of the items (and you'll complain that they overcharged for the fixings) or they build their margin into the day rate (and you'll complain "wow £500 a day!")

Clearly they recognise what is unfolding, hence their continued excuses and palming off of you.

If you thought you were being overcharged, you shouldn't have instructed them to do the work. It's really unfair on the trader to start doing this now after the work has been completed.

They gave me a total figure for the doors, fixings and oil, but nothing more detailed than that.  I already had an idea of the cost of the doors.

I guess I would expect them to price parts as what it cost them plus VAT, and their profit is in the labour as that is how the electrician and plumber I used recently did it.

It's become less about the cost now and more about their resistance to what I think is a perfectly normal request that would literally take 5 mins to do.  They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

No, that is not an inherent part of the agreement. They may legitimately build in a profit on the materials because it takes time to source them, or just because that's how they want to manage their business. You agreed on the total cost, so if them met that then you wouldn't have an argument even if they had 'overcharged' the materials. 

awkwardpanda

saajan_12 said:

awkwardpanda said:

Exodi said:

awkwardpanda said:

Afterwards I still wanted the itemised list of parts used priced up for me as I was suspicious they had significantly overcharged on the fixings for the doors.

How could you be suspicious you have been overcharged for the fixings if you don't know what they charged you for them?

Out of curiosity what would you prefer:

They build their margin into the price of the items (and you'll complain that they overcharged for the fixings) or they build their margin into the day rate (and you'll complain "wow £500 a day!")

Clearly they recognise what is unfolding, hence their continued excuses and palming off of you.

If you thought you were being overcharged, you shouldn't have instructed them to do the work. It's really unfair on the trader to start doing this now after the work has been completed.

They gave me a total figure for the doors, fixings and oil, but nothing more detailed than that.  I already had an idea of the cost of the doors.

I guess I would expect them to price parts as what it cost them plus VAT, and their profit is in the labour as that is how the electrician and plumber I used recently did it.

It's become less about the cost now and more about their resistance to what I think is a perfectly normal request that would literally take 5 mins to do.  They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

No, that is not an inherent part of the agreement. They may legitimately build in a profit on the materials because it takes time to source them, or just because that's how they want to manage their business. You agreed on the total cost, so if them met that then you wouldn't have an argument even if they had 'overcharged' the materials. 

Thanks.  I think it was more to put my mind at rest as other companies behaved differently.