Carpenter won't give me an itemised receipt

awkwardpanda

DullGreyGuy said:

awkwardpanda said:

I did query the cost of materials a while back and they gave a vague answer about costs adding up and costs associated with storing the doors prior to fitting them.  However the doors were purchased on the first day they came as they bought everything on the way to my house.

I just feel they are not being transparent with me.  If they can give me prices that make sense then fine, but that's just it, the price of the materials (labour was priced separately and looked ok) doesn't seem to add up.

Now I feel like I am being made out to be a bogeyman for just wanting a proper receipt like you would get anywhere else.

You were happy enough with the price
You seem very happy with the work

You have no statutory right to know the breakdown of the price of the job, if it was so important to you then you should have held off having the work done until they gave a price breakdown because as soon as it was done you lost your bargaining chip.

They could tell you they charged you £1 per door and £600 fitting per door, its a somewhat arbitrary split and some will genuinely charge more on labour and pass parts on at cost whereas others will charge less on labour but markup parts more. At the end of the day if its £601 per door what does the split matter? 

Have you ever gone into Tesco's and ask them to provide a breakdown of why they charge 74p for a loaf of their own bread and how much goes on labour, utilities, raw ingredients, packaging etc? 

As I explained in another reply, I did ask them before committing, but at that point I had already been trying to book someone for 3 months and was concerned I was going to miss an opportunity at all to get it done as I wasn't getting replies to requests for quotes.

The Tesco example isn't a good comparison as whilst I see where you are coming from, I get an itemised receipt from Tesco for the goods purchased.

MeteredOut

awkwardpanda said:

Exodi said:

awkwardpanda said:

Afterwards I still wanted the itemised list of parts used priced up for me as I was suspicious they had significantly overcharged on the fixings for the doors.

How could you be suspicious you have been overcharged for the fixings if you don't know what they charged you for them?

Out of curiosity what would you prefer:

They build their margin into the price of the items (and you'll complain that they overcharged for the fixings) or they build their margin into the day rate (and you'll complain "wow £500 a day!")

Clearly they recognise what is unfolding, hence their continued excuses and palming off of you.

If you thought you were being overcharged, you shouldn't have instructed them to do the work. It's really unfair on the trader to start doing this now after the work has been completed.

They gave me a total figure for the doors, fixings and oil, but nothing more detailed than that.  I already had an idea of the cost of the doors.

I guess I would expect them to price parts as what it cost them plus VAT, and their profit is in the labour as that is how the electrician and plumber I used recently did it.

It's become less about the cost now and more about their resistance to what I think is a perfectly normal request that would literally take 5 mins to do.  They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

So no-matter what the breakdown says, you'd just move on? If so, what's the point, now that the work has been completed to your full satisfaction for exactly the price you agreed?

I suspect the carpenter knows you'd likely come back with queries on the breakdown, hence it not just being 5 minutes of their time. They (perhaps rightly) think it would just be opening a door to a whole lot of hassle. And they've dealt with enough doors already.

DullGreyGuy

awkwardpanda said:

I guess I would expect them to price parts as what it cost them plus VAT, and their profit is in the labour as that is how the electrician and plumber I used recently did it.

That is only one possible model, others will charge less labour and add a margin on the parts. 

How do you know they charged you what they ultimately paid for it? 

Back in my first ever job doing mail order (pre-internet days), there were effectively two prices, public and agency. The brochure and invoices only listed the public prices but the agents received a 10-20% rebate on everything that went through their account so they could look you in the eye and give you a £500 invoice that matched the catalogue but we'd be subsequently giving them £50-£100 back 

awkwardpanda

MeteredOut said:

If you required an itemised breakdown, then you should not have allowed the work to start before receiving it. You had the total price and (presumably) agreed to that price for the work.

I suspect the carpenter/wife is worried you'll see how much they've charged as a day rate resulting in a complaint, perhaps because you were so persistent about getting it itemised in previous discussions.

I'd put this down as a learning experience for the next time you're distrusting of people you book - don't allow the work to start without the itemised invoice, but accept that some people will avoid customers that insist.

The wholesaler is correct in not giving you a copy of the receipt for something someone else bought.

To be honest I very nearly didn't use them as the price was pretty high and communication was abysmal (and still is).  If I had better options I would have gone with them, but apparently carpenters are too busy to give out new quotes and I was worried it would end up getting done next year at this rate!

WIAWSNB

"How much for the job?"

"Ok, that's fine - thanks. Please proceed."

"Nice work! Pleased I used you!"

"Now, could I analyse your costings in detail..."

You found yourself a good carpenter, you were 'happy' with their quote, by your own account they've done a good job, and now you're unlikely to ever have them agree to do another job for you again. Ever. 

Because you are a certain type of Panda. Again by your own admission

awkwardpanda

I should add that rather than give a rounded total number for the materials, it was a very specific number to the penny.  Hence me thinking it would be legitimate (and no big deal) to ask for the itemised version.

If it were rounded to say £1500 or whatever, it would be clear they were giving a figure they felt covered fluctuating costs their end and then they would just add on labour.

awkwardpanda

WIAWSNB said:

"How much for the job?"

"Ok, that's fine - thanks. Please proceed."

"Nice work! Pleased I used you!"

"Now, could I analyse your costings in detail..."

You found yourself a good carpenter, you were 'happy' with their quote, by your own account they've done a good job, and now you're unlikely to ever have them agree to do another job for you again. Ever. 

Because you are a certain type of Panda. Again by your own admission

Actually even though I liked the work (maybe not the price so much, but options were severely limited), I probably wouldn't use them again as communication was so terrible and protracted.

Section62

awkwardpanda said:

It's become less about the cost now and more about their resistance to what I think is a perfectly normal request that would literally take 5 mins to do.

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

It isn't normal.  They gave you a lump sum quote so they will invoice you for a lump sum.  There is no obligation on them to provide itemised billing, and doing so is likely to take a lot more than '5 mins to do'.  Would you now be willing to pay more to the trader at his hourly charge rate to cover the time taken to give you an itemised invoice?

They are probably assuming you want to know this information so you can dispute each amount charged and take up an inordinate amount of their time arguing about it.  If it is 'less about the cost now' and more about the principle, then just punish them by not giving them any more work.

awkwardpanda said:

They should and could have done it when I first asked before I committed.

They could, but they didn't have to.  You were free to ignore their quote because it didn't meet your requirements and looked for someone else instead.

Isthisforreal99

They could make up any breakdown they want to come to the price you agreed. Whats your next step after that, ask them for receipts for the materials.

Somebody mentioned nightmare customers earlier. You are straying into that territory

GardenBirdWatcher

awkwardpanda said:

I probably wouldn't use them again as communication was so terrible and protracted.

And they almost certainly wouldn't be interested in doing any more work for you as you're showing yourself to be a nightmare customer.

Be happy that you actually found a tradesman that did a job that you were happy with at a price you were happy to pay, and move on with your life.