Paying by standing order

QrizB

Watercompanyvictim said:

The debt collection letter states that the rest of the yearly balance is now due

So that's the problem?

Your water bill is due annually. You haven't paid it.

Watercompanyvictim

QrizB said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

The debt collection letter states that the rest of the yearly balance is now due

So that's the problem?

Your water bill is due annually. You haven't paid it.

Paid it every year via installments like I did the 10 years before with united utilities. Like I do with my domestic water. Like you can do with your business water bills. Like I have done the 20 months and 65 payments before. 

mmmmikey

Watercompanyvictim said:

Hoenir said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

I've never refused to pay and indeed still pay weekly but now they have sent my account to a debt collection agency with all the costs that comes with that because and I quote "this is not their desired method of payment". 

Sounds as you are in constantly in arrears and not adhering to the contractual terms and conditions. Causing the water company unneccessary additional administration. You are beating yourself with your own self made stick. Solution is easy. Switch to direct debit. No amount of ranting is going to help you achieve anything. 

Been paying standing order since the start. 65 payments gone through without any problems at all. You are allowed to pay in installments so paying by direct debit would not change anything as utvwiyjd be the same amount paid on the same day to the same account it's just they would not have direct access to my bank account. 
The amount and date are not even in question just the method. 

I can see why you believe that there is no difference between a standing order and direct debit, but from their point of view there are significant differences. When they collect the payment by direct debit, it's very easy to automatically assign the payment to the correct account immediately. However, if you initiate the payment into their account they have to go through extra steps. First, they have to match the payment to a specific account. And then they will need to do additional checks to make sure the match is correct. Also, if for any reason a direct debit isn't collected they'll know straight away, whereas it would take some time to establish whether a standing order payment was late. There are also different financial processing costs associated with different payment method. So unfortunately your basic premise is based on a false (but understandable) assumption. 

You are not obliged to pay by direct debit and your reason for that is largely irrelevant. But what you are obliged to do is pay using a payment method that they accept. If you pay them by using a standing order to put money directly into their bank account, they will follow whatever process they have for reconciling their account but you will have to accept that they are at best going to treat that the same as a late payment and would be quite within their rights to add charges to your account and/or instruct a debt collector to chase you. There is also a very real risk that you already have black marks on your credit files at the credit reference agencies.

Unfortunately your complaint seems to amount to saying "I don't trust the direct debit system because of an issue I had with EDF and Nationwide and therefore I demand the right to pay my water bill by standing order". No official body is likely to take that complaint seriously however you dress it up.

It's obvious that this has frustrated you and I can see why, but unfortunately it really does seem to be the case that you're making a rod for your own back here. Ultimately it's the rules that count in these situations, not your views on what those rules should be - whatever the merits of your views are or how strongly you hold them.

QrizB

Watercompanyvictim said:

QrizB said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

The debt collection letter states that the rest of the yearly balance is now due

So that's the problem?

Your water bill is due annually. You haven't paid it.

Paid it every year via installments like I did the 10 years before with united utilities. Like I do with my domestic water. Like you can do with your business water bills. Like I have done the 20 months and 65 payments before. 

But not by the due date, which puts you in arrears and leads to your current situation.

magpies79

Putting your views on direct debit to one side have you check your credit file  as a few water companies report payments to credit agencies now 
and they might have put late payment marker's on your file.

Good few years ago you use to be Able to pay your bill was it a water card go into post office and pay is that still around? 

matelodave

i agree with @magpies79 that it would be a good idea to check your credit ratings/history.

In days gone past water companies required payment in advance, usually in April, but some would split it and take half in April and the second instalment around October meaning that you were still paying in advance. Others allowed standing orders but again usually in advance. I'm guessing that they now don't allow standing orders but will allow direct debits which means that your account could well be in arrears.

That could have serious consequences if your water company reports to the credit reference agencies (mine does). Standing up for your perceived rights may make you feel better but not at the expense of your credit history which could take a lot longer to sort out than getting an overpaid DD refunded - but hey-ho its up to you

Watercompanyvictim

mmmmikey said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

Hoenir said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

I've never refused to pay and indeed still pay weekly but now they have sent my account to a debt collection agency with all the costs that comes with that because and I quote "this is not their desired method of payment". 

Sounds as you are in constantly in arrears and not adhering to the contractual terms and conditions. Causing the water company unneccessary additional administration. You are beating yourself with your own self made stick. Solution is easy. Switch to direct debit. No amount of ranting is going to help you achieve anything. 

Been paying standing order since the start. 65 payments gone through without any problems at all. You are allowed to pay in installments so paying by direct debit would not change anything as utvwiyjd be the same amount paid on the same day to the same account it's just they would not have direct access to my bank account. 
The amount and date are not even in question just the method. 

I can see why you believe that there is no difference between a standing order and direct debit, but from their point of view there are significant differences. When they collect the payment by direct debit, it's very easy to automatically assign the payment to the correct account immediately. However, if you initiate the payment into their account they have to go through extra steps. First, they have to match the payment to a specific account. And then they will need to do additional checks to make sure the match is correct. Also, if for any reason a direct debit isn't collected they'll know straight away, whereas it would take some time to establish whether a standing order payment was late. There are also different financial processing costs associated with different payment method. So unfortunately your basic premise is based on a false (but understandable) assumption. 

You are not obliged to pay by direct debit and your reason for that is largely irrelevant. But what you are obliged to do is pay using a payment method that they accept. If you pay them by using a standing order to put money directly into their bank account, they will follow whatever process they have for reconciling their account but you will have to accept that they are at best going to treat that the same as a late payment and would be quite within their rights to add charges to your account and/or instruct a debt collector to chase you. There is also a very real risk that you already have black marks on your credit files at the credit reference agencies.

Unfortunately your complaint seems to amount to saying "I don't trust the direct debit system because of an issue I had with EDF and Nationwide and therefore I demand the right to pay my water bill by standing order". No official body is likely to take that complaint seriously however you dress it up.

It's obvious that this has frustrated you and I can see why, but unfortunately it really does seem to be the case that you're making a rod for your own back here. Ultimately it's the rules that count in these situations, not your views on what those rules should be - whatever the merits of your views are or how strongly you hold them.

Again I would agree if it wasn't a fact 65 payments had gone out without issue previously automatically registering on my account. 
I'd also agree if their complaints department had not agreed it was a acceptable method of payment and I would get no late fees or penalties. 

mmmmikey

Watercompanyvictim said:

Hoenir said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

Hoenir said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

I've never refused to pay and indeed still pay weekly but now they have sent my account to a debt collection agency with all the costs that comes with that because and I quote "this is not their desired method of payment". 

Sounds as you are in constantly in arrears and not adhering to the contractual terms and conditions. Causing the water company unneccessary additional administration. You are beating yourself with your own self made stick. Solution is easy. Switch to direct debit. No amount of ranting is going to help you achieve anything. 

Been paying standing order since the start. 65 payments gone through without any problems at all. You are allowed to pay in installments so paying by direct debit would not change anything as utvwiyjd be the same amount paid on the same day to the same account it's just they would not have direct access to my bank account. 
The amount and date are not even in question just the method. 

You are a business and as such agreed to the contractual terms. Breaching those terms allows the other party to seek a remedy through the Courts. Unfortunately doesn't apply to me / I'll do what I want counts for absolutely nothing.  I'd imagine that the Water Company has now reached the point of having no other course of action. 

There has been no breach hence why 65 payments and 20 months of payments went through without a hitch. If there was a breach they would have corresponded with me from the first payment and 20 months ago. 
No contract has been agreed and it used to be united utilities which I also paid by standing order for 10 years without any problems. 

Two more examples of not unreasonable but quite possibly false assumptions. 

Firstly, the fact that they didn't contact you when you first paid by standing order doesn't necessarily mean that it was acceptable to them. They quite possibly just made a business decision (at that time) not to hold you to the T's and C's because whilst they still had the processes and systems in place to manage standing orders there was very little to be gained by doing so. That does not mean that they cannot enforce the T's and C's now if they choose.

Secondly, although you may have not formally signed a contract document that doesn't mean that no contract exists. You don't sign a contract when you buy, for example, petrol from a petrol station but that doesn't mean that a contract doesn't exist in a legal sense. It's likely that you are deemed to agree to the T's and C's of supply purely by virtue of being a customer and using the supply.

Not a false assumption but the fact that you paid by standing order for 10 years without problems is irrelevant. What matters is the payment methods that are in place now.

It may not feel like it, but folks here are trying to protect you from yourself. The more you dig your heels in and refuse to co-operate with the water supplier and debt collector the higher the risk that you will end up paying more charges and ultimately have your supply cut off. If you don't heed the advice you're being given here and end up paying un-necessary charges you will have nobody but yourself to blame.

Watercompanyvictim

mmmmikey said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

Hoenir said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

Hoenir said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

I've never refused to pay and indeed still pay weekly but now they have sent my account to a debt collection agency with all the costs that comes with that because and I quote "this is not their desired method of payment". 

Sounds as you are in constantly in arrears and not adhering to the contractual terms and conditions. Causing the water company unneccessary additional administration. You are beating yourself with your own self made stick. Solution is easy. Switch to direct debit. No amount of ranting is going to help you achieve anything. 

Been paying standing order since the start. 65 payments gone through without any problems at all. You are allowed to pay in installments so paying by direct debit would not change anything as utvwiyjd be the same amount paid on the same day to the same account it's just they would not have direct access to my bank account. 
The amount and date are not even in question just the method. 

You are a business and as such agreed to the contractual terms. Breaching those terms allows the other party to seek a remedy through the Courts. Unfortunately doesn't apply to me / I'll do what I want counts for absolutely nothing.  I'd imagine that the Water Company has now reached the point of having no other course of action. 

There has been no breach hence why 65 payments and 20 months of payments went through without a hitch. If there was a breach they would have corresponded with me from the first payment and 20 months ago. 
No contract has been agreed and it used to be united utilities which I also paid by standing order for 10 years without any problems. 

Two more examples of not unreasonable but quite possibly false assumptions. 

Firstly, the fact that they didn't contact you when you first paid by standing order doesn't necessarily mean that it was acceptable to them. They quite possibly just made a business decision (at that time) not to hold you to the T's and C's because whilst they still had the processes and systems in place to manage standing orders there was very little to be gained by doing so. That does not mean that they cannot enforce the T's and C's now if they choose.

Secondly, although you may have not formally signed a contract document that doesn't mean that no contract exists. You don't sign a contract when you buy, for example, petrol from a petrol station but that doesn't mean that a contract doesn't exist in a legal sense. It's likely that you are deemed to agree to the T's and C's of supply purely by virtue of being a customer and using the supply.

Not a false assumption but the fact that you paid by standing order for 10 years without problems is irrelevant. What matters is the payment methods that are in place now.

It may not feel like it, but folks here are trying to protect you from yourself. The more you dig your heels in and refuse to co-operate with the water supplier and debt collector the higher the risk that you will end up paying more charges and ultimately have your supply cut off. If you don't heed the advice you're being given here and end up paying un-necessary charges you will have nobody but yourself to blame.

The water company have investigated  and apologised. 
They have removed all fees and have said this sort of thing should never have happened with a reliable payer. 
Fingers crossed the nightmare is over. 

mmmmikey

Watercompanyvictim said:

mmmmikey said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

Hoenir said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

Hoenir said:

Watercompanyvictim said:

I've never refused to pay and indeed still pay weekly but now they have sent my account to a debt collection agency with all the costs that comes with that because and I quote "this is not their desired method of payment". 

Sounds as you are in constantly in arrears and not adhering to the contractual terms and conditions. Causing the water company unneccessary additional administration. You are beating yourself with your own self made stick. Solution is easy. Switch to direct debit. No amount of ranting is going to help you achieve anything. 

Been paying standing order since the start. 65 payments gone through without any problems at all. You are allowed to pay in installments so paying by direct debit would not change anything as utvwiyjd be the same amount paid on the same day to the same account it's just they would not have direct access to my bank account. 
The amount and date are not even in question just the method. 

You are a business and as such agreed to the contractual terms. Breaching those terms allows the other party to seek a remedy through the Courts. Unfortunately doesn't apply to me / I'll do what I want counts for absolutely nothing.  I'd imagine that the Water Company has now reached the point of having no other course of action. 

There has been no breach hence why 65 payments and 20 months of payments went through without a hitch. If there was a breach they would have corresponded with me from the first payment and 20 months ago. 
No contract has been agreed and it used to be united utilities which I also paid by standing order for 10 years without any problems. 

Two more examples of not unreasonable but quite possibly false assumptions. 

Firstly, the fact that they didn't contact you when you first paid by standing order doesn't necessarily mean that it was acceptable to them. They quite possibly just made a business decision (at that time) not to hold you to the T's and C's because whilst they still had the processes and systems in place to manage standing orders there was very little to be gained by doing so. That does not mean that they cannot enforce the T's and C's now if they choose.

Secondly, although you may have not formally signed a contract document that doesn't mean that no contract exists. You don't sign a contract when you buy, for example, petrol from a petrol station but that doesn't mean that a contract doesn't exist in a legal sense. It's likely that you are deemed to agree to the T's and C's of supply purely by virtue of being a customer and using the supply.

Not a false assumption but the fact that you paid by standing order for 10 years without problems is irrelevant. What matters is the payment methods that are in place now.

It may not feel like it, but folks here are trying to protect you from yourself. The more you dig your heels in and refuse to co-operate with the water supplier and debt collector the higher the risk that you will end up paying more charges and ultimately have your supply cut off. If you don't heed the advice you're being given here and end up paying un-necessary charges you will have nobody but yourself to blame.

The water company have investigated  and apologised. 
They have removed all fees and have said this sort of thing should never have happened with a reliable payer. 
Fingers crossed the nightmare is over. 

That's good news