BUS Scheme likely to extend to Air to Air Heat Pumps :)

Screwdriva

Finally, some positive traction...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/air-con-for-your-home-could-become-part-of-7-5k-heat-pump-grant/ar-AA1Iq6pt

NedS

Screwdriva said:

Finally, some positive traction...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/air-con-for-your-home-could-become-part-of-7-5k-heat-pump-grant/ar-AA1Iq6pt

I can see how A2A systems that can also provide cooling would be attractive to those in hotter parts of the country, and if it helps persuade people to make the switch away from fossil fuel based heating then I'm all in favour.

shinytop

NedS said:

Screwdriva said:

Finally, some positive traction...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/air-con-for-your-home-could-become-part-of-7-5k-heat-pump-grant/ar-AA1Iq6pt

I can see how A2A systems that can also provide cooling would be attractive to those in hotter parts of the country, and if it helps persuade people to make the switch away from fossil fuel based heating then I'm all in favour.

I don't agree. I don't want my taxes subsidising air conditioning, which very few people (those with medical conditions) need in this country.  A2A is cheap enough anyway and grants would just push up the price. I also wouldn't like to see ACs running off gas generated electricity, which could easily happen.  We need heating in the UK but we don't need air conditioning. If people want it they should pay for it themselves.  

Netexporter

shinytop said:

NedS said:

Screwdriva said:

Finally, some positive traction...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/air-con-for-your-home-could-become-part-of-7-5k-heat-pump-grant/ar-AA1Iq6pt

I can see how A2A systems that can also provide cooling would be attractive to those in hotter parts of the country, and if it helps persuade people to make the switch away from fossil fuel based heating then I'm all in favour.

I don't agree. I don't want my taxes subsidising air conditioning, which very few people (those with medical conditions) need in this country.  A2A is cheap enough anyway and grants would just push up the price. I also wouldn't like to see ACs running off gas generated electricity, which could easily happen.  We need heating in the UK but we don't need air conditioning. If people want it they should pay for it themselves.  

I'm inclined to agree. However, I might be amenable to grants if solar was installed at the same time, to provide the leccy for cooling purposes. There would still be the benefit of more efficient use of mixed-source electricity for heating purposes. Solar an A/C are a good fit.

NedS

shinytop said:

NedS said:

Screwdriva said:

Finally, some positive traction...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/air-con-for-your-home-could-become-part-of-7-5k-heat-pump-grant/ar-AA1Iq6pt

I can see how A2A systems that can also provide cooling would be attractive to those in hotter parts of the country, and if it helps persuade people to make the switch away from fossil fuel based heating then I'm all in favour.

I don't agree. I don't want my taxes subsidising air conditioning, which very few people (those with medical conditions) need in this country.  A2A is cheap enough anyway and grants would just push up the price. I also wouldn't like to see ACs running off gas generated electricity, which could easily happen.  We need heating in the UK but we don't need air conditioning. If people want it they should pay for it themselves.  

I hear you, but I see it as not subsidising air conditioning, but rather subsidising an A2A heat pump to heat your house in winter as part of our commitment to reduce CO2 emissions, and as an added bonus, it can also cool your house in summer if required by switching the heat pump unit into reverse (and who wouldn't have enjoyed a bit of air con this week?)

The uptake of heat pumps has been slow/below target in the UK. If the added bonus of providing cooling in summer is enough to nudge more people to install heat pumps who may otherwise not have, and move away from heating their house with fossil fuels, is that not a good thing and helping to meet those targets? What is the cost to the tax payer of failing to meet the targets we have signed up for as a country? 

I do take your point though about grants just pushing up prices and I'm sure there would be an element of that.

wrf12345

Where grants are involved a relatively simple install process is likely to become layered with complexity and something that costs a grand ends up doubling in price. Passive measures are better for cooling unless there is a consistent increase in temperature above 30 degrees but it may be that there are global warming predictions which mean just that for the UK. Solar PV (which would cover most of the water heating) plus a couple of A2A units should be well within the 7.5k budget. Next year, should see a radical reduction in battery pack prices, bTW, so a useful add-on if you have "free" solar and A2A.

shinytop

NedS said:

shinytop said:

NedS said:

Screwdriva said:

Finally, some positive traction...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/air-con-for-your-home-could-become-part-of-7-5k-heat-pump-grant/ar-AA1Iq6pt

I can see how A2A systems that can also provide cooling would be attractive to those in hotter parts of the country, and if it helps persuade people to make the switch away from fossil fuel based heating then I'm all in favour.

I don't agree. I don't want my taxes subsidising air conditioning, which very few people (those with medical conditions) need in this country.  A2A is cheap enough anyway and grants would just push up the price. I also wouldn't like to see ACs running off gas generated electricity, which could easily happen.  We need heating in the UK but we don't need air conditioning. If people want it they should pay for it themselves.  

I hear you, but I see it as not subsidising air conditioning, but rather subsidising an A2A heat pump to heat your house in winter as part of our commitment to reduce CO2 emissions, and as an added bonus, it can also cool your house in summer if required by switching the heat pump unit into reverse (and who wouldn't have enjoyed a bit of air con this week?)

The uptake of heat pumps has been slow/below target in the UK. If the added bonus of providing cooling in summer is enough to nudge more people to install heat pumps who may otherwise not have, and move away from heating their house with fossil fuels, is that not a good thing and helping to meet those targets? What is the cost to the tax payer of failing to meet the targets we have signed up for as a country? 

I do take your point though about grants just pushing up prices and I'm sure there would be an element of that.

Fair points. I think the premise that the only answer to reducing emissions is the complete replacement of ff heating with a A2W heat pump needs rethinking. It seems to me a hybrid gas CH (and water)/A2A approach could be encouraged - but I don't know how!  

The_Green_Hornet

All I would add is "don't let the perfect be the enemy of good".

Anything that increases the take up of heat pumps to move away from gas/oil is a good thing. If it can be also used as an air conditioning unit during extreme weather events then that is a bonus.

ed110220

This would be a very good move I think. I think we need to get away from the puritanical opposition to air conditioning. Electricity demand in summer is not really an issue as it tends to be fairly low. If it's hot, the sun is either out or has been out recently. The arrival of cheap solar and now battery storage means we're not going to be short of clean electricity at these times. Many grids already have curtailment of PV on sunny days so having extra demand then to soak it up would be helpful.

Winter heating is a harder problem as wind is a lot more variable than solar over periods of a several days. 

If people use a comparatively small amount of cooling when clean energy is a abundant and that encourages them to install ASHP that is mainly used for heating and displacing fossil gas, I don't see the problem. It's better to be practical rather than moralistic about it.

QrizB

OTOH you can buy a budget-brand 5kW monobloc A2W HP for £1100. That won't get you a MCS certificate or a grant, but it's a cheap replacement for a FF boiler.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/357014577293

There are a handful of sellers offering equally no-name heat pumps in a range of sizes.

silverwhistle

shinytop said:

I think the premise that the only answer to reducing emissions is the complete replacement of ff heating with a A2W heat pump needs rethinking. It seems to me a hybrid gas CH (and water)/A2A approach could be encouraged - but I don't know how!  

Absolutely not, that's just more complexity akin to hybrid cars. More to go wrong, less efficient and no chance of saving ~ £100 a year on gas standing charges.

Talking of the latter, as more people get heat pumps or go all electric the cost of maintaing the gas network is going to be divided amongst fewer and fewer people..

The prediction of excess deaths from heat is rising so AC is becoming less of a luxury anyway. I'm lucky enoough to live on the coast and get sea breezes, but I've also set up temporary passive measures on South facing windows which help, and as I already have PV my environmental impact would be low.