Santander free forever bank account changes

MeteredOut

fest0r said:

MeteredOut said:

amyfairweather said:

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

It's a gamble either way; you need to decide what works best for you and the size of your business.

If you close the account and subsequently Santander "lose", then you will also lose as it'll be too late at that point - you'll have already closed the account.

If Santander win, then by the time FOS come to a decision, it should only be a few £9.99's, at most.

I'm willing to take that risk, others won't.

If the result goes against us, I'll close the account, so Santander is on a hiding to nothing as they've already lost me as a personal customer.  Apparently, somehow all this means I'm "unprofitable" to them, but paying them £9.99 would make me profitable.

The only reason I'm carrying on the fight is the promise of free forever.  You could move to Starling or whoever and they're free today, but will they be free tomorrow?  That's why these accounts are worth keeping open if you can.

But yes, if the fight is lost, then I too will be moving my unprofitable business account elsewhere - in the knowledge that this whole process will have cost Santander a small fortune.

Can you provide any workings behind that "knowledge"? I suspect Santander have their own version of knowledge.

Can you provide any evidence to back up your suspicion that "Santander have their own version of knowledge"?

Do you believe they have assessed things properly, this time? Compared to their previous failed attempt.

No, I can't provide evidence; that's why i called it a suspicion. But they cleary have enough information to work out what it would cost them if every customer with one the accounts left, taking all other accounts with them, and perhaps factoring in an FOS compensation claim. I'd be very surprised if they hadn't done those calculations, and balanced that against what providing free banking on that account cost them.

You now. What do you based that "knowledge" on? Do you have insider information?  What do you regard as a small fortune?

I've no idea if they've assessed things properly this time. I've said from the outset I think only the FOS can make a determination, and I still believe it could go either way.

eskbanker

MeteredOut said:
I've said from the outset I think only the FOS can make a determination, and I still believe it could go either way.

It still seems possible to me that the FCA will intervene - obviously FOS is the body to deal with individual escalated consumer complaints, typically about service, etc, but when it's a policy issue affecting many thousands, I'd have thought that the regulator may step in....

born_again

fest0r said:

MeteredOut said:

amyfairweather said:

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

It's a gamble either way; you need to decide what works best for you and the size of your business.

If you close the account and subsequently Santander "lose", then you will also lose as it'll be too late at that point - you'll have already closed the account.

If Santander win, then by the time FOS come to a decision, it should only be a few £9.99's, at most.

I'm willing to take that risk, others won't.

If the result goes against us, I'll close the account, so Santander is on a hiding to nothing as they've already lost me as a personal customer.  Apparently, somehow all this means I'm "unprofitable" to them, but paying them £9.99 would make me profitable.

The only reason I'm carrying on the fight is the promise of free forever.  You could move to Starling or whoever and they're free today, but will they be free tomorrow?  That's why these accounts are worth keeping open if you can.

But yes, if the fight is lost, then I too will be moving my unprofitable business account elsewhere - in the knowledge that this whole process will have cost Santander a small fortune.

Can you provide any workings behind that "knowledge"? I suspect Santander have their own version of knowledge.

Can you provide any evidence to back up your suspicion that "Santander have their own version of knowledge"?

Do you believe they have assessed things properly, this time? Compared to their previous failed attempt.

One thing for certain. Santander have not done this on a whim. This will have been fully costed out with the knowledge that they will be losing a certain % of customers. Legal will have been fully involved around the T/C & chances of how FOS would react.
Just the same as they have done with the 123 lite account changes.

If they lost to FOS. Then do not be surprised if they simply pull the product, or simply pull all business accounts.. Which FOS would be powerless on.

Banks do not do anything like this without a full understanding of the implications involved.

fest0r

MeteredOut said:
No, I can't provide evidence; that's why i called it a suspicion. But they cleary have enough information to work out what it would cost them if every customer with one the accounts left, taking all other accounts with them, and perhaps factoring in an FOS compensation claim. I'd be very surprised if they hadn't done those calculations, and balanced that against what providing free banking on that account cost them.

You now. What do you based that "knowledge" on? Do you have insider information?  What do you regard as a small fortune?

I've no idea if they've assessed things properly this time. I've said from the outset I think only the FOS can make a determination, and I still believe it could go either way.

Maybe with threats of pulling out of the UK, senior management are in a desperate rush to cut costs? You seem to have a lot more faith in their abilities than I do, especially as their last attempt failed.

Also, I didn't make the "knowledge" claim so I can't comment directly, but I have seen multiple stories in the national press regarding this situation. This certainly can't be classed as beneficial to Santander's profits.

On a very small, personal level, having to change my bank details has been a perfect opportunity to let my customers know exactly why I have moved accounts. I've also moved a (profitable?) savings account away from them. I wonder if others are doing the same.

Amongst all the supportive posts for Santander, I notice a theme. There seems to be an assertion that these free accounts were unprofitable. Has there been any info to back this up? Maybe they're just not profitable enough.

eskbanker

born_again said:
Banks do not do anything like this without a full understanding of the implications involved.

This argument can be used in either direction - obviously they tried something similar previously and had to back down, so evidently didn't prepare well enough then.  It's plausible that they've learned their lesson but there'll still be a risk that they'll have to backtrack again....

Section62

born_again said:

One thing for certain. Santander have not done this on a whim. This will have been fully costed out with the knowledge that they will be losing a certain % of customers. Legal will have been fully involved around the T/C & chances of how FOS would react.

Just the same as they have done with the 123 lite account changes.

With the obvious exception that none of us were promised a 123Lite account with cashback 'forever'.  Those who have held a 123 or 123Lite account for a long period of time have already gone through multiple alterations to the T&C's with the effect of reducing benefits... there's no doubt whatsoever that Santander can convert 123Lite accounts to Everyday ones.  Zero.  That isn't the same as promising free business banking 'forever'.

born_again said:

If they lost to FOS. Then do not be surprised if they simply pull the product, or simply pull all business accounts.. Which FOS would be powerless on.

That would seem to be a bit of an overreaction, surely?  Not that many posts earlier in the thread we were being told the number of 'free' business banking customers was so insignificant in the scale of Santander that nobody would notice them leaving Santander (or words to the effect).

Writing off your entire business banking portfolio as some tantrum in response to FOS requiring a small number of accounts to remain free doesn't sound like something a bank would do on a whim.  If this strategy has "been fully costed out" as you suggest then I'm amazed the cost of closing all business accounts has been deemed worthwhile to avoid the ongoing 'free forever' provision.

born_again said:

Banks do not do anything like this without a full understanding of the implications involved.

I'd echo eskbanker's comment.  I also think there's plenty of history showing how banks can - even in the tightly regulated environment they operate in - make some really silly decisions, suggesting that "full understanding" is not always what it seems.

amyfairweather

MeteredOut said:

amyfairweather said:

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

It's a gamble either way; you need to decide what works best for you and the size of your business.

If you close the account and subsequently Santander "lose", then you will also lose as it'll be too late at that point - you'll have already closed the account.

If Santander win, then by the time FOS come to a decision, it should only be a few £9.99's, at most.

I'm willing to take that risk, others won't.

If the result goes against us, I'll close the account, so Santander is on a hiding to nothing as they've already lost me as a personal customer.  Apparently, somehow all this means I'm "unprofitable" to them, but paying them £9.99 would make me profitable.

The only reason I'm carrying on the fight is the promise of free forever.  You could move to Starling or whoever and they're free today, but will they be free tomorrow?  That's why these accounts are worth keeping open if you can.

But yes, if the fight is lost, then I too will be moving my unprofitable business account elsewhere - in the knowledge that this whole process will have cost Santander a small fortune.

Can you provide any workings behind that "knowledge"? I suspect Santander have their own version of knowledge.

Certainly, Santander were under the impression that they would generate an extra £119.88 from me over the next 12 months.  That's before the other charges kick in for cash/cheque deposits.

Whereas, in reality, the following will apply:
1. They will not be receiving that £119.88 (or perhaps some of it whilst the FOS inquiry concludes, but lets assume they are not receiving a penny of it).
Running total -£119.88
2. They are probably going to have to pay £650 to FOS.
Running total -£769.88
3. I am in the process of filing a second complaint due to handling of the first.  Cost unknown.
Running total -£769.88
4. I have opened a subject access request under GDPR.  Cost unknown.
Running total -£769.88
5. They are going to lose whatever margin they were making on my business current account & savings if/when I leave.  I don't know the exact figure, but lets conservatively estimate their margin is somewhere between £2000-£3000.
Running total -£3269.88 (went for £2500)
6. I've closed a personal account which had the £85k FSCS maximum in it.  Santander margin of £2000?
Running total -£5269.88
7. I've advised friends/family to do likewise.  Santander margin unknown.
Running total still -£5269.88
8. Santander admin / complaints / wasted time dealing with FOS.  Conservative estimate £500.
Total -£5769.88

So even with conservative estimates, which no doubt you will disagree with, that's 47 years worth of £9.99's or 47 other business customers to stay quiet and accept it in order for them to get back to where they expected to be.  But then what about all those £9.99's?  You'd need yet more customers to pick up their slack.

Multiply all of that across the "unprofitable" free business banking clientele and, like I said, it comes back to a small fortune.  Of course, to Santander, it's nothing.

noitsnotme

amyfairweather said:

MeteredOut said:

amyfairweather said:

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

It's a gamble either way; you need to decide what works best for you and the size of your business.

If you close the account and subsequently Santander "lose", then you will also lose as it'll be too late at that point - you'll have already closed the account.

If Santander win, then by the time FOS come to a decision, it should only be a few £9.99's, at most.

I'm willing to take that risk, others won't.

If the result goes against us, I'll close the account, so Santander is on a hiding to nothing as they've already lost me as a personal customer.  Apparently, somehow all this means I'm "unprofitable" to them, but paying them £9.99 would make me profitable.

The only reason I'm carrying on the fight is the promise of free forever.  You could move to Starling or whoever and they're free today, but will they be free tomorrow?  That's why these accounts are worth keeping open if you can.

But yes, if the fight is lost, then I too will be moving my unprofitable business account elsewhere - in the knowledge that this whole process will have cost Santander a small fortune.

Can you provide any workings behind that "knowledge"? I suspect Santander have their own version of knowledge.

Certainly, Santander were under the impression that they would generate an extra £119.88 from me over the next 12 months.  That's before the other charges kick in for cash/cheque deposits.

Whereas, in reality, the following will apply:
1. They will not be receiving that £119.88 (or perhaps some of it whilst the FOS inquiry concludes, but lets assume they are not receiving a penny of it).
Running total -£119.88
2. They are probably going to have to pay £650 to FOS.
Running total -£769.88
3. I am in the process of filing a second complaint due to handling of the first.  Cost unknown.
Running total -£769.88
4. I have opened a subject access request under GDPR.  Cost unknown.
Running total -£769.88
5. They are going to lose whatever margin they were making on my business current account & savings if/when I leave.  I don't know the exact figure, but lets conservatively estimate their margin is somewhere between £2000-£3000.
Running total -£3269.88 (went for £2500)
6. I've closed a personal account which had the £85k FSCS maximum in it.  Santander margin of £2000?
Running total -£5269.88
7. I've advised friends/family to do likewise.  Santander margin unknown.
Running total still -£5269.88
8. Santander admin / complaints / wasted time dealing with FOS.  Conservative estimate £500.
Total -£5769.88

So even with conservative estimates, which no doubt you will disagree with, that's 47 years worth of £9.99's or 47 other business customers to stay quiet and accept it in order for them to get back to where they expected to be.  But then what about all those £9.99's?  You'd need yet more customers to pick up their slack.

Multiply all of that across the "unprofitable" free business banking clientele and, like I said, it comes back to a small fortune.  Of course, to Santander, it's nothing.

A small fortune to you and I, most definitely.  But with Santander’s global revenue in the multiple billions, it’s a tiny drop in their gigantic ocean.  A quick google suggests their Q2 profit for 2025 is a whopping 3.4 billion euros!!

Good for you if it makes you feel better about the situation but don’t kid yourself that it will have any meaningful financial impact on Santander.

fest0r

noitsnotme said:

A small fortune to you and I, most definitely.  But with Santander’s global revenue in the multiple billions, it’s a tiny drop in their gigantic ocean.  A quick google suggests their Q2 profit for 2025 is a whopping 3.4 billion euros!!

Good for you if it makes you feel better about the situation but don’t kid yourself that it will have any meaningful financial impact on Santander.

You can't have it both ways. This situation started because Santander wanted to cut costs and make these free accounts profitable, or at least, more profitable. By their own estimate, £9.99 per month plus fees for certain types of deposits covers the cost and gives them enough profit. If it doesn't work out, they won't suddenly remember their global profits and forget about everything. Those who made this decision at Santander clearly think it has a "financial impact".

Apart from all those monthly fees needed to cover amyfairweather's estimated costs, Santander would then need to hope this remaining customer made extra cheque/cash deposits to make up for their monthly payments that have been going towards paying these additional costs. It's even harder to quantify the additional loss of goodwill and negative media coverage. This is all assuming that any customers stay with what is now, an uncompetitive product and there will be no U-turn or compensation costs.

Scaled up to the percentage of ~50k customers that will be leaving and you potentially have a meaningful amount. Even for such a profitable and much loved (it seems) global banking corporation, but "good for you" on making your comment and I hope it made you "feel better about the situation".

Futuristic

amyfairweather said:

MeteredOut said:

amyfairweather said:

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

It's a gamble either way; you need to decide what works best for you and the size of your business.

If you close the account and subsequently Santander "lose", then you will also lose as it'll be too late at that point - you'll have already closed the account.

If Santander win, then by the time FOS come to a decision, it should only be a few £9.99's, at most.

I'm willing to take that risk, others won't.

If the result goes against us, I'll close the account, so Santander is on a hiding to nothing as they've already lost me as a personal customer.  Apparently, somehow all this means I'm "unprofitable" to them, but paying them £9.99 would make me profitable.

The only reason I'm carrying on the fight is the promise of free forever.  You could move to Starling or whoever and they're free today, but will they be free tomorrow?  That's why these accounts are worth keeping open if you can.

But yes, if the fight is lost, then I too will be moving my unprofitable business account elsewhere - in the knowledge that this whole process will have cost Santander a small fortune.

Can you provide any workings behind that "knowledge"? I suspect Santander have their own version of knowledge.

Certainly, Santander were under the impression that they would generate an extra £119.88 from me over the next 12 months.  That's before the other charges kick in for cash/cheque deposits.

Whereas, in reality, the following will apply:
1. They will not be receiving that £119.88 (or perhaps some of it whilst the FOS inquiry concludes, but lets assume they are not receiving a penny of it).
Running total -£119.88
2. They are probably going to have to pay £650 to FOS.
Running total -£769.88
3. I am in the process of filing a second complaint due to handling of the first.  Cost unknown.
Running total -£769.88
4. I have opened a subject access request under GDPR.  Cost unknown.
Running total -£769.88
5. They are going to lose whatever margin they were making on my business current account & savings if/when I leave.  I don't know the exact figure, but lets conservatively estimate their margin is somewhere between £2000-£3000.
Running total -£3269.88 (went for £2500)
6. I've closed a personal account which had the £85k FSCS maximum in it.  Santander margin of £2000?
Running total -£5269.88
7. I've advised friends/family to do likewise.  Santander margin unknown.
Running total still -£5269.88
8. Santander admin / complaints / wasted time dealing with FOS.  Conservative estimate £500.
Total -£5769.88

So even with conservative estimates, which no doubt you will disagree with, that's 47 years worth of £9.99's or 47 other business customers to stay quiet and accept it in order for them to get back to where they expected to be.  But then what about all those £9.99's?  You'd need yet more customers to pick up their slack.

Multiply all of that across the "unprofitable" free business banking clientele and, like I said, it comes back to a small fortune.  Of course, to Santander, it's nothing.

Hilarious if you think you’re showing them. That much money decaying away to inflation at well below market rates or even zero by the sounds of it? They’ve made more than your running total if you’ve had money sitting doing nothing whilst rates have been high 

fest0r said:

noitsnotme said:

A small fortune to you and I, most definitely.  But with Santander’s global revenue in the multiple billions, it’s a tiny drop in their gigantic ocean.  A quick google suggests their Q2 profit for 2025 is a whopping 3.4 billion euros!!

Good for you if it makes you feel better about the situation but don’t kid yourself that it will have any meaningful financial impact on Santander.

Scaled up to the percentage of ~50k customers that will be leaving and you potentially have a meaningful amount. Even for such a profitable and much loved (it seems) global banking corporation, but "good for you" on making your comment and I hope it made you "feel better about the situation".

Reality is it’s unlikely any sizeable business will be switching over especially if they had no issues in their 20+(?) years for sake of extra £9.99 a month. A lot of the posts here mention low turnover or dormant accounts so call it a nice cleaning process for Santander