Santander free forever bank account changes

solidpro

GeoffTF said:

solidpro said:

GeoffTF said:

Free UK business banking is a very small part of Santander's global business. Even if the FOS rules against them, it is just the status quo. Some mostly unprofitable customers will have left, but that is about it. If the FOS rules in their favour, they will collect monthly fees from the customers who remain, and also lose some mostly unprofitable customers. There may not be a big impact on the bottom line in either case. Investors will be focusing on the branch closures, staff cuts and the freezing of staff pay.

There is a voice in the back of my head saying "this message is sponsored by Santander - a fair, free and low cost bank, who always play it straight."

I thought that my post said pretty much the opposite. I suggested that Santander may view this as heads it wins and tails it does not lose. That is less straight than adding a monthly charge because it believes that it is going to win (which may well be the case). I also drew attention to the branch closures, staff cuts and freezing of staff pay. They are not a good employer right now, but neither are the other big banks. I do not think that you have a great deal to complain about if your free business banking comes to an end after more than a decade. Show me a big bank where you would have done better.

I can afford £10 a month. It's the principle of the matter, not the impact on my life.

It's unfair based on the original terms/contract, it put them at an unfair advantage and the methods used to wriggle out of it feel dishonest and in bad faith.

As you say, this bunch of business accounts is minscule. They thought they'd pick a fight because they can shrug it off, and if they did it by accident then then they're thicker than we all thought.

solidpro

eskbanker said:

Section62 said:

So I think amyfairweather is likely correct - 'forever' for a bank account probably doesn't mean until the end of time, but rather for as long as the purpose/need/desire still exists.

And of course in it's in Santander's interest to interpret the commitment as relating to an account rather than a customer relationship, so it seems that plenty are understandably reluctant to go along with the interpretation that the promise was account-specific.

It was Santander in their original contract who referred to 'free business banking forever'. Not a specific product. So them trying to frame is as 'we dont do this product anymore' - them meaning 'free product' and for everyone else meaning 'business bank accounts' along 'with we have transferred you to a new business bank account name so all the original benefits no longer apply' stinks.

 That's the problem. I've run a couple of companies for nearly 20 years and I've never done the dirty on anyone. I'm a tiny company and if I ever sold someone something that meant I took a loss, then I still stood by what I sold and fulfilled the contract.

I don't have expensive legal advice but I still manage a contract which doesn't have glaring holes I later regret.

This feels, in several ways as 'dirty'.

And that's why customers never left my business saying they'll never ever use us again.

eskbanker

amyfairweather said:

eskbanker said:

Section62 said:

So I think amyfairweather is likely correct - 'forever' for a bank account probably doesn't mean until the end of time, but rather for as long as the purpose/need/desire still exists.

And of course in it's in Santander's interest to interpret the commitment as relating to an account rather than a customer relationship, so it seems that plenty are understandably reluctant to go along with the interpretation that the promise was account-specific.

This "account-specific" interpretation is a moot point because Santander said no ifs, no buts - free business banking forever.

Now, if Santander decided they wished to leave the business banking sector completely, what you're saying might  hold true, but in this case, it does not and it cannot.  Santander are still operating within this space.

Therefore, a Santander business banking account is a Santander business banking account which in turn is a Santander business banking account.  Calling it 'classic' this or 'everyday' that is irrelevant.

Yes, I was just highlighting that the bolded wording above doesn't seem to be an accurate reflection of the customers' viewpoint but is closer to what Santander are claiming!

gt94sss2

Not a lawyer, but this discussion does remind of something I read once which is that any ambiguity in contractual terms must be interpreted in favour of the consumer pursuant to Section 69 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (contra proferentem).

flickadee001

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

MeteredOut

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

If i were a Santander customer with one of these accounts, I'd be assuming the charge is going ahead, and I'd have to make the decision whether to keep the account, and fight the fight hoping to claim the charges back, or close the account, and perhaps reducing my chances of winning since it will be harder to show losses on the back of their decision.

I really can't see Santander backing down without FOS involvement, and I very much that will happen before the charges start hitting the accounts.

amyfairweather

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

It's a gamble either way; you need to decide what works best for you and the size of your business.

If you close the account and subsequently Santander "lose", then you will also lose as it'll be too late at that point - you'll have already closed the account.

If Santander win, then by the time FOS come to a decision, it should only be a few £9.99's, at most.

I'm willing to take that risk, others won't.

If the result goes against us, I'll close the account, so Santander is on a hiding to nothing as they've already lost me as a personal customer.  Apparently, somehow all this means I'm "unprofitable" to them, but paying them £9.99 would make me profitable.

The only reason I'm carrying on the fight is the promise of free forever.  You could move to Starling or whoever and they're free today, but will they be free tomorrow?  That's why these accounts are worth keeping open if you can.

But yes, if the fight is lost, then I too will be moving my unprofitable business account elsewhere - in the knowledge that this whole process will have cost Santander a small fortune.

MeteredOut

amyfairweather said:

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

It's a gamble either way; you need to decide what works best for you and the size of your business.

If you close the account and subsequently Santander "lose", then you will also lose as it'll be too late at that point - you'll have already closed the account.

If Santander win, then by the time FOS come to a decision, it should only be a few £9.99's, at most.

I'm willing to take that risk, others won't.

If the result goes against us, I'll close the account, so Santander is on a hiding to nothing as they've already lost me as a personal customer.  Apparently, somehow all this means I'm "unprofitable" to them, but paying them £9.99 would make me profitable.

The only reason I'm carrying on the fight is the promise of free forever.  You could move to Starling or whoever and they're free today, but will they be free tomorrow?  That's why these accounts are worth keeping open if you can.

But yes, if the fight is lost, then I too will be moving my unprofitable business account elsewhere - in the knowledge that this whole process will have cost Santander a small fortune.

Can you provide any workings behind that "knowledge"? I suspect Santander have their own version of knowledge.

fest0r

MeteredOut said:

amyfairweather said:

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

It's a gamble either way; you need to decide what works best for you and the size of your business.

If you close the account and subsequently Santander "lose", then you will also lose as it'll be too late at that point - you'll have already closed the account.

If Santander win, then by the time FOS come to a decision, it should only be a few £9.99's, at most.

I'm willing to take that risk, others won't.

If the result goes against us, I'll close the account, so Santander is on a hiding to nothing as they've already lost me as a personal customer.  Apparently, somehow all this means I'm "unprofitable" to them, but paying them £9.99 would make me profitable.

The only reason I'm carrying on the fight is the promise of free forever.  You could move to Starling or whoever and they're free today, but will they be free tomorrow?  That's why these accounts are worth keeping open if you can.

But yes, if the fight is lost, then I too will be moving my unprofitable business account elsewhere - in the knowledge that this whole process will have cost Santander a small fortune.

Can you provide any workings behind that "knowledge"? I suspect Santander have their own version of knowledge.

Can you provide any evidence to back up your suspicion that "Santander have their own version of knowledge"?

Do you believe they have assessed things properly, this time? Compared to their previous failed attempt.

MeteredOut

fest0r said:

MeteredOut said:

amyfairweather said:

flickadee001 said:

Just catching up with the thread here, as I’ve been away for a while and haven’t had the chance to follow a lot of the newer discussions (apologies for being so out of the loop!).

For my own clarity, and maybe for others in a similar position, is there any update on what’s happening moving forward with the upcoming charges?

I’ve just spoken directly to a Senior Complaints Manager regarding a separate incident, but I did ask a few times about the impending charges. From what I was told, it looks like they will be going ahead. I was also informed that if anything were to change, there would be an outreach to customers to gauge opinion. I did stress that the backlash among existing customers is growing, with many people very frustrated, especially those of us who’ve been with the bank for 20+ years and were promised “free banking forever.”

Given how this is looking, I’m now seriously considering abandoning ship before the October 1st deadline.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any different information or is thinking along the same lines.

It's a gamble either way; you need to decide what works best for you and the size of your business.

If you close the account and subsequently Santander "lose", then you will also lose as it'll be too late at that point - you'll have already closed the account.

If Santander win, then by the time FOS come to a decision, it should only be a few £9.99's, at most.

I'm willing to take that risk, others won't.

If the result goes against us, I'll close the account, so Santander is on a hiding to nothing as they've already lost me as a personal customer.  Apparently, somehow all this means I'm "unprofitable" to them, but paying them £9.99 would make me profitable.

The only reason I'm carrying on the fight is the promise of free forever.  You could move to Starling or whoever and they're free today, but will they be free tomorrow?  That's why these accounts are worth keeping open if you can.

But yes, if the fight is lost, then I too will be moving my unprofitable business account elsewhere - in the knowledge that this whole process will have cost Santander a small fortune.

Can you provide any workings behind that "knowledge"? I suspect Santander have their own version of knowledge.

Can you provide any evidence to back up your suspicion that "Santander have their own version of knowledge"?

Do you believe they have assessed things properly, this time? Compared to their previous failed attempt.

No, I can't provide evidence; that's why i called it a suspicion. But they cleary have enough information to work out what it would cost them if every customer with one the accounts left, taking all other accounts with them, and perhaps factoring in an FOS compensation claim. I'd be very surprised if they hadn't done those calculations, and balanced that against what providing free banking on that account cost them.

You now. What do you based that "knowledge" on? Do you have insider information?  What do you regard as a small fortune?

I've no idea if they've assessed things properly this time. I've said from the outset I think only the FOS can make a determination, and I still believe it could go either way.