Santander free forever bank account changes

Lightning360

solidpro said:

GeoffTF said:

Free UK business banking is a very small part of Santander's global business. Even if the FOS rules against them, it is just the status quo. Some mostly unprofitable customers will have left, but that is about it. If the FOS rules in their favour, they will collect monthly fees from the customers who remain, and also lose some mostly unprofitable customers. There may not be a big impact on the bottom line in either case. Investors will be focusing on the branch closures, staff cuts and the freezing of staff pay.

There is a voice in the back of my head saying "this message is sponsored by Santander - a fair, free and low cost bank, who always play it straight."

They aren't wrong though. Whatever happens with this will be basically irrelevant for Santander

noitsnotme

Lightning360 said:

solidpro said:

GeoffTF said:

Free UK business banking is a very small part of Santander's global business. Even if the FOS rules against them, it is just the status quo. Some mostly unprofitable customers will have left, but that is about it. If the FOS rules in their favour, they will collect monthly fees from the customers who remain, and also lose some mostly unprofitable customers. There may not be a big impact on the bottom line in either case. Investors will be focusing on the branch closures, staff cuts and the freezing of staff pay.

There is a voice in the back of my head saying "this message is sponsored by Santander - a fair, free and low cost bank, who always play it straight."

They aren't wrong though. Whatever happens with this will be basically irrelevant for Santander

Exactly.  Santander apparently have 176 million customers worldwide.  The people affected by this change are an insignificant number in Santander’s eyes.

And no, I do not work for Santander, neither am I a shareholder! 🙄

Futuristic

amyfairweather said:

Futuristic said:

fest0r said:

Please remember to ignore obvious bait from shareholders and trolls. It's not worth your time.

It's funny you think anyone who writes somewhat positive is a troll or shareholder whilst the guys who think they know the FOS inside out writing several pages worth of crystal ball whilst not even being a Santander (business) customer is all good. 

What if Santander had offered you "1,000 free shares per annum forever" as long as you operated within specific transaction limits?

Would you now be a bit miffed if they decided to withdraw that offer on a T&C technicality?

Remember, Santander themselves were offering these "free forever" business accounts up until 2009/10.  This is not just a leftover from the Abbey/A&L days.

Personally I don't think forever/lifetime means forever and set my expectations that it'll disappear or be no longer offered at some point (pretty common in mobile apps,saas businesses) but I do feel sorry for those who are handling cash (ie shops) who will now have to come to possible reality of paying a lot more for their banking.

Everyone else has options and better ones at that, although with some posts here saying they don't use the account or make a few quid a month the possible return of compensation of even few hundred £ will be worth fighting this over. For everyone else running an actual business an extra £120 if you can't be bothered to switch shouldn't hurt their business.

If you thought this free deal was good then have a thought about the 123 business account which cost £12.50/month but you could get up to £300 cash back ever year based on turnover. And turnover counted between your accounts elsewhere (eg. business savings) which you could just transfer in and out over the year It's also being converted to "Classic".

GeoffTF

solidpro said:

GeoffTF said:

Free UK business banking is a very small part of Santander's global business. Even if the FOS rules against them, it is just the status quo. Some mostly unprofitable customers will have left, but that is about it. If the FOS rules in their favour, they will collect monthly fees from the customers who remain, and also lose some mostly unprofitable customers. There may not be a big impact on the bottom line in either case. Investors will be focusing on the branch closures, staff cuts and the freezing of staff pay.

There is a voice in the back of my head saying "this message is sponsored by Santander - a fair, free and low cost bank, who always play it straight."

I thought that my post said pretty much the opposite. I suggested that Santander may view this as heads it wins and tails it does not lose. That is less straight than adding a monthly charge because it believes that it is going to win (which may well be the case). I also drew attention to the branch closures, staff cuts and freezing of staff pay. They are not a good employer right now, but neither are the other big banks. I do not think that you have a great deal to complain about if your free business banking comes to an end after more than a decade. Show me a big bank where you would have done better.

amyfairweather

Futuristic said:
Personally I don't think forever/lifetime means forever

In that case, in your view, how long should "forever" mean in this scenario?

2 years from it last being advertised as such?  (2012)
5 years?  (2015, T&C changes)
15 years?  (2025)

I would suggest it to mean forever in terms of the business banking requirements of the person applying for it, not forever as in ad infinitum.  Therefore, if the business is sold, for example, the eligibility would fall away as the original customer falls away.

subjecttocontract

Reading through most of the 62 pages of this thread gives me the impression that Santander interpret 'forever' to mean until they no longer offer the free account. To the account holders it's interpreted to mean something entirely different and the FOS is the appointed referee.

clairec666

subjecttocontract said:

Reading through most of the 62 pages of this thread gives me the impression that Santander interpret 'forever' to mean until they no longer offer the free account. To the account holders it's interpreted to mean something entirely different and the FOS is the appointed referee.

Nowhere in the "free forever" promotional material, T&Cs etc., have I seen any footnotes specifying what "forever" means. I'm surprised they didn't tie down the exact definition, seeing how T&Cs are usually very specific and contain a lot of detail about every possible scenario.

eskbanker

clairec666 said:

subjecttocontract said:

Reading through most of the 62 pages of this thread gives me the impression that Santander interpret 'forever' to mean until they no longer offer the free account. To the account holders it's interpreted to mean something entirely different and the FOS is the appointed referee.

Nowhere in the "free forever" promotional material, T&Cs etc., have I seen any footnotes specifying what "forever" means. I'm surprised they didn't tie down the exact definition, seeing how T&Cs are usually very specific and contain a lot of detail about every possible scenario.

I can't remember where I read it recently, perhaps this long thread or another (sorry for vagueness!), but am pretty sure that someone posted that if a word isn't defined in a contract, then the usual dictionary meaning applies:

forever

/fərˈɛvə/

adverb

1. for all future time; for always.
   "she would love him forever"

so any sort of time limitation would be inconsistent with this.

They could obviously run their argument about changing banking landscape, etc, which I think was effectively appended to the 'forever' term in some documents (via references to changes in laws, regulations, etc), but I don't think they've actually developed that point yet....

Section62

eskbanker said:

clairec666 said:

subjecttocontract said:

Reading through most of the 62 pages of this thread gives me the impression that Santander interpret 'forever' to mean until they no longer offer the free account. To the account holders it's interpreted to mean something entirely different and the FOS is the appointed referee.

Nowhere in the "free forever" promotional material, T&Cs etc., have I seen any footnotes specifying what "forever" means. I'm surprised they didn't tie down the exact definition, seeing how T&Cs are usually very specific and contain a lot of detail about every possible scenario.

I can't remember where I read it recently, perhaps this long thread or another (sorry for vagueness!), but am pretty sure that someone posted that if a word isn't defined in a contract, then the usual dictionary meaning applies:
...

Not sure if that was me, but yes, if a term isn't defined in a contract or agreement the courts would usually apply the "natural meaning", unless a compelling case is made for some other meaning.  'Natural meaning' is usually framed around the common understanding of the word or phrase (in the context used).

Occasionally you'll see contracts which explicitly state something to the effect that, except where defined, words are have their natural meaning.

So I think amyfairweather is likely correct - 'forever' for a bank account probably doesn't mean until the end of time, but rather for as long as the purpose/need/desire still exists.

eskbanker

Section62 said:

So I think amyfairweather is likely correct - 'forever' for a bank account probably doesn't mean until the end of time, but rather for as long as the purpose/need/desire still exists.

And of course in it's in Santander's interest to interpret the commitment as relating to an account rather than a customer relationship, so it seems that plenty are understandably reluctant to go along with the interpretation that the promise was account-specific.