Motorists who DO NOT indicate when driving/Ignore Speed Warning Signs, Endangering law abiders

Bigphil1474

Appreciate some people think they are exemplars of perfect driving, but most of us will only see one small moment of another drivers day, so to suggest that any error they make is a "pattern of either total incompetence or a deliberate pattern of behaviour taken because those doing so are not decent people", is a bit much. The person who doesn't indicate when you see them, might indicate 99% of the time, or never. Same as speed or lane positioning. We don't know, so we can either get on our high horse about other peoples driving, or just let it go as the song says, and try to be better safer drivers our self. After all, safe drivers save money.

mtc95

I once heard about a survey where they asked drivers to rate their own driving ability against others.  Almost everyone put themselves around the 80th percentile, ie they thought they were better than 80% of other drivers.  TBH, I'd probably do the same, but obviously we can't all be right.

MattMattMattUK

Car_54 said:

MattMattMattUK said

Of most of the things yes. Have I ever sped, yes, have I ever exceeded the speed limit by 10mph, let alone 30mph or 50mph, absolutely not. Have I ever gone through a traffic light on amber? Of course, that is perfectly legal and acceptable. Have I ever driven through a red light? Twice, once to let a police car through who kept his sirens on, which means get out of the way (they will turn sirens off and keep lights on if they want you to wait until the light turns green) and once because I misjudged a junction, the light was probably red by a second. Do I do it five or ten seconds after going red, do I just ignore red lights or do I do it habitually? No, of course not, because I am a fully functional human. Do I use my phone whilst driving? No, never.

1. Crossing the stop light on amber is not "perfectly legal and acceptable". It is perfectly illegal, with one specific exception.

You are incorrect, it is perfectly legal to go through a light on amber. There is no "one specific exception, it is perfectly legal without exception.

AMBER means STOP. You may go on only if the amber appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/traffic-signals
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/light-signals-controlling-traffic

MattMattMattUK

Bigphil1474 said:

Appreciate some people think they are exemplars of perfect driving, but most of us will only see one small moment of another drivers day, so to suggest that any error they make is a "pattern of either total incompetence or a deliberate pattern of behaviour taken because those doing so are not decent people", is a bit much. The person who doesn't indicate when you see them, might indicate 99% of the time, or never. Same as speed or lane positioning. We don't know, so we can either get on our high horse about other peoples driving, or just let it go as the song says, and try to be better safer drivers our self. After all, safe drivers save money.

To reiterate, again, the issue is that there are some behaviours which are very obviously either total incompetence or they are deliberate acts. Does everyone drift a few mph over the speed limit on at least a rare occasion, yes, almost certainly, so those people ever exceed the speed limit by 20-50 mph, almost certainly not. Someone who is doing 60mph in a 30 is not someone who has drifted slightly over the speed limit, that is a deliberate act and demonstrates that they have no care for other road users, or the law. I never use my phone behind the week, I never have, I never will. If I need to make or receive a call I use handsfree in a fully legal fashion, anything else can wait, almost everyone I know is the same. If someone chooses to watch Netflix whilst driving along the motorway, or chooses to hold their phone whilst driving that is not a momentarily lapse, that is a deliberate choice. No one is talking about the marginal cases here, everyone almost certainly makes those little mistakes, we are talking about transgressions so obvious and blatant that they can only come down to either being totally incompetent or they must be deliberate acts of people who care nothing for the general public or the law. 

Or are you claiming that you accidentally, without realising, race other cars on the street, exceed the speed limit by 30mph, stop at a red light, then drive thorough blaring your horn and flashing your lights, us your mobile phone to watch a video or hold it in your hand whilst driving, drive the wrong way around roundabouts to jump traffic etc. and that behaviour is reasonable? 

Car_54

MattMattMattUK said:

Car_54 said:

MattMattMattUK said

Of most of the things yes. Have I ever sped, yes, have I ever exceeded the speed limit by 10mph, let alone 30mph or 50mph, absolutely not. Have I ever gone through a traffic light on amber? Of course, that is perfectly legal and acceptable. Have I ever driven through a red light? Twice, once to let a police car through who kept his sirens on, which means get out of the way (they will turn sirens off and keep lights on if they want you to wait until the light turns green) and once because I misjudged a junction, the light was probably red by a second. Do I do it five or ten seconds after going red, do I just ignore red lights or do I do it habitually? No, of course not, because I am a fully functional human. Do I use my phone whilst driving? No, never.

1. Crossing the stop light on amber is not "perfectly legal and acceptable". It is perfectly illegal, with one specific exception.

You are incorrect, it is perfectly legal to go through a light on amber. There is no "one specific exception, it is perfectly legal without exception.

AMBER means STOP. You may go on only if the amber appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/traffic-signals
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/light-signals-controlling-traffic

What the law actually says is:

"An amber signal, when shown alone, conveys the same prohibition as red, except that, as respects any vehicle which is so close to the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond the stop line, it conveys the same indication as the green signal which was shown immediately before it."

So, it is not perfectly legal, it is a criminal offence. The only exception is if the vehicle "cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond the stop line".[The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, Sched 14(6(9))]

How have you arrived at the opposite conclusion?

facade

MattMattMattUK said:

<snip>

You are incorrect, it is perfectly legal to go through a light on amber. There is no "one specific exception, it is perfectly legal without exception.

<snip>

Not complying with the indication of a traffic light is an offence under section 36.1 of the RTA 1988

The indications are defined in TSRDG 2016 

specifically schedule 14 part 1 section 5 (9) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14/made

An amber signal, when shown alone, conveys the same prohibition as red, except that, as respects any vehicle which is so close to the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond the stop line, it conveys the same indication as the green signal which was shown immediately before it. 

I would say the one specific case of being too close to stop safely is an exception, due to the wording.

If you cross the line on amber when you could have stopped before it then it is an offence. I would suggest that the majority of drivers who sail merrily across on amber, or accelerate towards an amber light could have stopped before the line, and are guilty of an offence under RTA 1988.

Grey_Critic

I have yet to meet a real lfe saint as far as driving is concerned. We all do it even if unintentional. All I can say is thankfully the only damage caused as a result of the few I have had is to the vehicle.

twopenny

When I used to drive to work over national park and tourist villages it was exasperating so I made a system of marking annoyances.
E. For leaving the indicator on for miles up to A for being a deliberate numpty and causing complete snarl up.

One guy only came out with a AA+.
He came through single file traffic lights, cussed at the cars queuing the other side, insisted on cutting through the queue waiting to go through to park on a crossroad junction, wrong side of the road and on double yellow lines. 
And he was cussing every one else for being in his way.

But marking other drivers keeps you calmer 😉

prowla

On the flipside of my inherent striving for righteousness, I have a convertible car which is quite noisy and have on occasion found my indicators still engaged after completing my manoevure.

That can be quite annoying!

sheramber

MattMattMattUK said:

Car_54 said:

MattMattMattUK said

Of most of the things yes. Have I ever sped, yes, have I ever exceeded the speed limit by 10mph, let alone 30mph or 50mph, absolutely not. Have I ever gone through a traffic light on amber? Of course, that is perfectly legal and acceptable. Have I ever driven through a red light? Twice, once to let a police car through who kept his sirens on, which means get out of the way (they will turn sirens off and keep lights on if they want you to wait until the light turns green) and once because I misjudged a junction, the light was probably red by a second. Do I do it five or ten seconds after going red, do I just ignore red lights or do I do it habitually? No, of course not, because I am a fully functional human. Do I use my phone whilst driving? No, never.

1. Crossing the stop light on amber is not "perfectly legal and acceptable". It is perfectly illegal, with one specific exception.

You are incorrect, it is perfectly legal to go through a light on amber. There is no "one specific exception, it is perfectly legal without exception.

AMBER means STOP. You may go on only if the amber appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/traffic-signals
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/light-signals-controlling-traffic

It used to be  'Don't pitch your brakes on Amber".