Holiday cottage not as described

XX44HAM44XX

elsien said:

20 - 25% seems very unrealistic to me. 

People could see you parking on the drive - so what?
The integral door was locked; there was no evidence that anyone would try to come through, and indeed they didn’t.
I’m sure the noise was a pain and I would have been annoyed by the situation, but it wasn’t excessive noise, and you were able to use all the rooms in the property that you were expecting to use with no issues. 

This probably comes down to goodwill, and their goodwill is currently coming in at 3%. 

Have a look at the loss of enjoyment section in this, as a point of comparison. 
https://www.dekachambers.com/2020/06/09/general-damages-in-holiday-claims-a-recap/

How much was the cost of the booking? 

Thanks, just trying to get a heads up on what is reasonable to expect and who to deal with over this , we paid around £1850 for a week

It was a case of being not as described and lack of privacy that has annoyed us and left us feeling uneasy all holiday, we had an old lady and autistic person in the party who were a bit upset by it all

XX44HAM44XX

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

XX44HAM44XX said: was about £1850 ish

So they've offered you 50 quid?

Seems a bit tight to me but what can you expect from someone renting out their home whilst their kid lives in the garage! 

Yes £50  seems a bit of an insult like here's a few quid, go away and we can mis sell to the next punter, it  isn't really about the money however there was and is no other way to resolve now, £50 or £500 wouldn't make a difference to me, it's about taking a stance against being mugged off to a degree. I can't just let it lie, I was just trying to gauge whether there's a set precedence for this type of thing to find a fair resolution. The listing still hasn't been updated a week on, not fair to others who have booked up

Okell

XX44HAM44XX said:

Grumpy_chap said:

XX44HAM44XX said:

Hello, just after some advice on where we stand please

We booked a UK  holiday through holidaycottages.com, the property was described as a detached property with private parking. It's a typical newish build 4 bed house and the holiday listing  showed pictures of the full house/drive and converted garage(outside pictures of converted garage )Upon arriving we discovered that the garage has been converted into a separate  apartment and was occupied by another person (owner's daughter and friends)

The other occupant had to walk across "our" drive to enter the apartment and on 2 occasion had a visitor parked on the drive. When we parked our cars on the drive we were left looking directly into their apartment (towels and washing  hanging out of windows drying, blinds open) which was awkward and certainly offered no  privacy

The apartment was directly below our upstairs master bedroom, ensuite and a second bedroom, noise could be heard through the floor, not excessive like a noise complaint but normal usage you would expect to hear through floor or walls (TV, hoover, washer, talking etc) from what is basically another room in the same house as us. there was even an integral door to the apartment, the original integral door to the garage, though locked was unsettling to think someone may enter.

Just wondering where we stand and what is reasonable to expect to resolve this which has impacted on our privacy, we complained straight away, the property was not as described and the company confirmed that the owner had not told them of the apartment,  The contract is with the owner apparently

 We have been offered what equates to between 2.5 and 3% refund by way of apology. The owner also messaged me apologising and saying "he should have mentioned it"  saying the door was sound proofed (no good when the noise is through the floor/ceiling)  There was no way to resolve at the time, ie we could not be moved anywhere and the other party actually resides there so they could not be asked to leave.

We would have never considered booking this holiday had we known it was "shared" the privacy is even less that a semi detached with the apartment actually being part of the original detached house

We're ensuring the listing is being changed so others are not misled, we think this apartment must have just recently been occupied and other holiday reviews are good with no mention of it.

The whole situation impacted on the enjoyment of the holiday

2 main questions

Do the company have a responsibility to deal with this as I paid them though their T&Cs say the contract is between me and the owner, do I have to deal with the owner?

Secondly what would be a reasonable and fair request to resolve?  We think being  offered not even 3% is derogatory, would requesting 20% or 25% be fair under the circumstances? Not sure if there is a set guide for this

Thanks 

What does the amount you have been offered (2.5% to 3%) equate to in £££?  
I think asking for 20% or 25% is unrealistically optimistic.

Did the space you had access to have all the rooms you were expecting?

Could the photo showing the property realistically have been taken to show the whole property and not show the converted annex / garage?

The privacy issue of looking into the apartment when parking on the drive is really a privacy issue for the occupants of the apartment, not you.

It sounds like the noise did not cause you great inconvenience / affect sleep etc., so limited grounds there.

The locked door is possibly fully locked so neither side has keys and / or might be blocked off on the other side.

Ultimately you did stay there and remain there for the whole duration (how long) of the originally booked stay, so limited loss.
What financial loss did you suffer?
In the absence of a quantifiable financial loss, you are left with loss of enjoyment which tends to be harder to substantiate and, based on what has been shared, would probably be a small / token offering.

... it was supposed to be our private drive, not shared, we were put in that position through mis information, don't allude to this in any way being our fault for inconveniencing the privacy of an apartment we were not told about...

I'm not sure what you mean by "don't allude(?) to this in any way being our fault for inconveniencing the privacy of an apartment we were not told about... ".

You said in your OP:

XX44HAM44XX said:

... When we parked our cars on the drive we were left looking directly into their apartment (towels and washing  hanging out of windows drying, blinds open) which was awkward and certainly offered no  privacy... 

which I - and I suspect @Grumpy_chap - took to be reference to the privacy of the people in the garage apartment and not you, and I think that is the point he was making.  

And nowhere can I see any implication by him that you were in any way at fault and I wonder why you seem to think that is what he was suggesting

XX44HAM44XX

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I wonder if they having permission to turn the garage into a living area. Not sure how you fit an apartment in a garage but if the daughter is living there I wonder if they pay council tax...... 

In terms of consumer rights contract will likely be with the holiday home owner (the booking companies usually act as an agent, T&Cs will confirm, I'm too lazy to look ) 

Hard to quantify such things, loss of enjoyment bears no relation to price paid and case law offers a guidance on what to expect based upon the type of holiday. 

In terms of consumer rights if a service doesn't conform to the contract (which includes anything the trader says or writes) then you are entitled to a price reduction. That is typically the difference between what is paid and what is given but that doesn't necessarily help in this kind of situation (as I doubt you'll find another exact home with family living in the garage to compare the price difference!). 

Ultimately it's two sides coming to an agreement or go to court via small claims. Letter before action as a bluff is an option but they might pull the current offer. 

Take the offer, leave a (factual) review, tip off the council? 

Thanks, especially the advice about the council, poor review incoming as standard, I just hate being lied to and being  expected to wear it, I've never rented a property which effectively has a lodger 

XX44HAM44XX

Okell said:

XX44HAM44XX said:

Grumpy_chap said:

XX44HAM44XX said:

Hello, just after some advice on where we stand please

We booked a UK  holiday through holidaycottages.com, the property was described as a detached property with private parking. It's a typical newish build 4 bed house and the holiday listing  showed pictures of the full house/drive and converted garage(outside pictures of converted garage )Upon arriving we discovered that the garage has been converted into a separate  apartment and was occupied by another person (owner's daughter and friends)

The other occupant had to walk across "our" drive to enter the apartment and on 2 occasion had a visitor parked on the drive. When we parked our cars on the drive we were left looking directly into their apartment (towels and washing  hanging out of windows drying, blinds open) which was awkward and certainly offered no  privacy

The apartment was directly below our upstairs master bedroom, ensuite and a second bedroom, noise could be heard through the floor, not excessive like a noise complaint but normal usage you would expect to hear through floor or walls (TV, hoover, washer, talking etc) from what is basically another room in the same house as us. there was even an integral door to the apartment, the original integral door to the garage, though locked was unsettling to think someone may enter.

Just wondering where we stand and what is reasonable to expect to resolve this which has impacted on our privacy, we complained straight away, the property was not as described and the company confirmed that the owner had not told them of the apartment,  The contract is with the owner apparently

 We have been offered what equates to between 2.5 and 3% refund by way of apology. The owner also messaged me apologising and saying "he should have mentioned it"  saying the door was sound proofed (no good when the noise is through the floor/ceiling)  There was no way to resolve at the time, ie we could not be moved anywhere and the other party actually resides there so they could not be asked to leave.

We would have never considered booking this holiday had we known it was "shared" the privacy is even less that a semi detached with the apartment actually being part of the original detached house

We're ensuring the listing is being changed so others are not misled, we think this apartment must have just recently been occupied and other holiday reviews are good with no mention of it.

The whole situation impacted on the enjoyment of the holiday

2 main questions

Do the company have a responsibility to deal with this as I paid them though their T&Cs say the contract is between me and the owner, do I have to deal with the owner?

Secondly what would be a reasonable and fair request to resolve?  We think being  offered not even 3% is derogatory, would requesting 20% or 25% be fair under the circumstances? Not sure if there is a set guide for this

Thanks 

What does the amount you have been offered (2.5% to 3%) equate to in £££?  
I think asking for 20% or 25% is unrealistically optimistic.

Did the space you had access to have all the rooms you were expecting?

Could the photo showing the property realistically have been taken to show the whole property and not show the converted annex / garage?

The privacy issue of looking into the apartment when parking on the drive is really a privacy issue for the occupants of the apartment, not you.

It sounds like the noise did not cause you great inconvenience / affect sleep etc., so limited grounds there.

The locked door is possibly fully locked so neither side has keys and / or might be blocked off on the other side.

Ultimately you did stay there and remain there for the whole duration (how long) of the originally booked stay, so limited loss.
What financial loss did you suffer?
In the absence of a quantifiable financial loss, you are left with loss of enjoyment which tends to be harder to substantiate and, based on what has been shared, would probably be a small / token offering.

... it was supposed to be our private drive, not shared, we were put in that position through mis information, don't allude to this in any way being our fault for inconveniencing the privacy of an apartment we were not told about...

I'm not sure what you mean by "don't allude(?) to this in any way being our fault for inconveniencing the privacy of an apartment we were not told about... ".

You said in your OP:

XX44HAM44XX said:

... When we parked our cars on the drive we were left looking directly into their apartment (towels and washing  hanging out of windows drying, blinds open) which was awkward and certainly offered no  privacy... 

which I - and I suspect @Grumpy_chap - took to be reference to the privacy of the people in the garage apartment and not you, and I think that is the point he was making.  

And nowhere can I see any implication by him that you were in any way at fault and I wonder why you seem to think that is what he was suggesting

I read that as implying that we impacted on their privacy which  actually we probably did but on our "private" not private  drive, it was just awkward, I don't blame them at all just the owner for putting us in that situation

elsien

1. Regardless of the picture, you say you expected the apartment was yours - did the written description of the property include the use of the garage/apartment? And did you have the number of bedrooms etc you were informed you were getting? If so im still struggling to see any misdescription in terms of direct facilities.

2. Just a point for those saying report to the council - I have stayed in a converted garage before now. It was a studio rather than an  apartment, but had a shower room and kitchenette -and planning permission. 

born_again

 was described as a detached property with private parking. It's a typical newish build 4 bed house and the holiday listing  showed pictures of the full house/drive and converted garage(outside pictures of converted garage)

Looking at this from a chargeback perspective. That is well described to what you received.
So someone parked the drive twice, would not be uncommon, as often properties are visited by people, looking after the property. 

Maybe other reviewers were not bothered by the family being there. Some would say a bonus if you had any problems.

At a push 10% would be really generous. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

elsien said:

1. Regardless of the picture, you say you expected the apartment was yours - did the written description of the property include the use of the garage/apartment? And did you have the number of bedrooms etc you were informed you were getting? If so im still struggling to see any misdescription in terms of direct facilities.

OP mentions it's described as detached, even if the annex technically still classes the house as detached, an omission could breach the CPRs entitling the OP to a 25% discount. 

elsien said:

2. Just a point for those saying report to the council - I have stayed in a converted garage before now. It was a studio rather than an  apartment, but had a shower room and kitchenette -and planning permission. 

Perfectly possibly it's all done correct and if so no harm in reporting  

I think the conversion would need planning, it would need building control sign of. In terms of council tax usually these holiday let places pay business rates (assuming offered and let for the required timeframes) which then usually get rate relief. 

If the garage is a separate living space with kitchen and bathroom there is usually council tax for an annex from my (limited) understanding, how that may differ for a mixed use property I don't know (a question for the housing board) but again if it's done correctly no harm, if it isn't, well council tax is high enough and if someone can pull in £1850 a week renting out their house they can afford to pay anything that may be due on their annex.  

XX44HAM44XX said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

XX44HAM44XX said: was about £1850 ish

So they've offered you 50 quid?

Seems a bit tight to me but what can you expect from someone renting out their home whilst their kid lives in the garage! 

Yes £50  seems a bit of an insult like here's a few quid, go away and we can mis sell to the next punter

Getting money back, in any situation really, is like getting blood out of a stone, go away money is usually offered as the trouble of pushing it further is usually more trouble than it's worth for most and a lot of people just take what they can get for an easy life.  

XX44HAM44XX

born_again said:

 was described as a detached property with private parking. It's a typical newish build 4 bed house and the holiday listing  showed pictures of the full house/drive and converted garage(outside pictures of converted garage)

Looking at this from a chargeback perspective. That is well described to what you received.
So someone parked the drive twice, would not be uncommon, as often properties are visited by people, looking after the property. 

Maybe other reviewers were not bothered by the family being there. Some would say a bonus if you had any problems.

At a push 10% would be really generous. 

Detached property with private parking was described but wasn't what we received, someone looking after the property would be expected to park there if they needed to attend but not visitors to the apartment.

Perhaps others weren't bothered but we were as we didn't get what we paid for

XX44HAM44XX

elsien said:

1. Regardless of the picture, you say you expected the apartment was yours - did the written description of the property include the use of the garage/apartment? And did you have the number of bedrooms etc you were informed you were getting? If so im still struggling to see any misdescription in terms of direct facilities.

2. Just a point for those saying report to the council - I have stayed in a converted garage before now. It was a studio rather than an  apartment, but had a shower room and kitchenette -and planning permission. 

The written description made no mention of the apartment and yes we got the rooms and facilities described so there was no loss of "direct facilities" however it was misdescribed as detached with private parking which it wasn't which caused us to choose this property which we never would have done if the listing was not wrong.

The holiday company are updating the listing to reflect the misdescription/omission of fact