Citroen/DS 3 stop drive recall

pop77db

My daughter has a 2012 DS3 and her local dealership told her that they have 300 airbags on order and no idea when they will get to her. She asked about the do not drive and, rudely, said 'what does it say on the letter, do not drive'. I double checked it and nowhere on any documentation she has received does it say do not drive, not even the dvsa leaflet. It has only been on news articles we've seen this. I'm trying to find more clarity on it as she's refusing to stop driving it.

flaneurs_lobster

pop77db said:

I double checked it and nowhere on any documentation she has received does it say do not drive, not even the dvsa leaflet. It has only been on news articles we've seen this. I'm trying to find more clarity on it as she's refusing to stop driving it.

You've probably found this but it hangs off the home page of citroen.co.uk

https://www.citroen.co.uk/maintain/safety-recall-check.html

Mildly_Miffed

pop77db said:

My daughter has a 2012 DS3 and her local dealership told her that they have 300 airbags on order and no idea when they will get to her. She asked about the do not drive and, rudely, said 'what does it say on the letter, do not drive'. I double checked it and nowhere on any documentation she has received does it say do not drive, not even the dvsa leaflet. It has only been on news articles we've seen this. I'm trying to find more clarity on it as she's refusing to stop driving it.

https://www.citroen.co.uk/maintain/safety-recall-check.html

"Stellantis UK Announces Stop-Drive
...
Stellantis UK announces an immediate stop-drive action ... Owners of such vehicles should immediately cease using their vehicle when safe to do so."

It is very clear.

The risk is the same as it's been all along - she basically runs the risk of having a claymore mine on her steering wheel. If/when the airbag deploys, there is a high risk of fatal injuries from metal shrapnel as the housing of the bag breaks up.

This is what caused the French fatality ten days ago which has prompted this stop-drive notice on top of the pre-existing recall. The driver of a C3 swerved on the autoroute to avoid a truck, hit the barrier lightly but sufficiently for the airbag to deploy... and she suffered fatal injuries from the airbag itself.

There is a suggestion up-thread of a "dangerous" MOT fail on the recall notice alone. I can't see anything that covers this in the tester's manual, so would be inclined to put that in the same "urban myth" category as "you won't be insured". The one possible situation would be...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/introduction#section-4
"The reasons for refusing to carry out the test are:
h. The condition of the vehicle is such that, in the opinion of the tester, a proper examination would involve a danger of injury to any person or damage to the vehicle or other property."

...but that won't be recorded as a test fail, let alone dangerous, because no test would be carried out.

In the event of a collision that caused the airbag to be deployed, though, I can certainly see how insurers may view serious injuries resulting as being due to the driver's neglect, which would affect any payout.

The other alternative would be pulling the SRS fuse to disable the airbags. This would remove the risk in the event of deployment, but at the expense of increased risk from, well, no airbags or pretensioners in the event of a collision. Again, insurance will have something to say - as would Mr MOT.

It's all about her attitude to risk. She cannot say she has not been warned. Should the worst happen, she is aware of the possible consequences. The ball is in her court. You may wish to try to sway her decision, but it is her decision.

facade

The recall extends to 2019!!!!

Takata didn't even exist post 2017 when they successfully went bankrupt and were bought out by a Chinese company, why on Earth were Citroen still using defective Takata inflators 13 years after Honda started their major recall?

Mildly_Miffed

facade said:

The recall extends to 2019!!!!

Takata didn't even exist post 2017 when they successfully went bankrupt and were bought out by a Chinese company, why on Earth were Citroen still using defective Takata inflators 13 years after Honda started their major recall?

The second gen C3 went out of production in 2016, and the first gen DS3 in 2018. The 2019 cutoff is just to cover late-reg cars. As you say, Takata went under in 2017.

This recall process started in the US in 2016, but expanded in 2019 to cover other inflators.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36206679
"Airbag inflators
The recall targets airbag inflators that may explode with too much force and shoot metal debris at the driver and passengers.
Takata uses ammonium nitrate to fill its airbags with air in a crash. Most other airbag makers use guanidine nitrate, which is less volatile.
Takata switched to ammonium nitrate in 2001, saying it produced gas more efficiently. Takata has denied accusations that that switch was cost related.
"The science clearly shows that these inflators become unsafe over time, faster when exposed to humidity and variations of temperature," said NHTSA Administrator Mark Rosekind."

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle-safety/takata-recall-spotlight
"A separate group of defective Takata air bags was recalled in late 2019. Unlike the air bag inflators in the larger Takata recalls, this recall involves non-azide driver inflators."

The initial 2013/4 recall related to 2000-2004 US-built cars with Mexican-assembled airbags, and arose from poor record-keeping and chemical storage in that factory.

https://www.reuters.com/article/business/faulty-takata-air-bags-prompt-expanded-toyota-recall-idUSKBN0EM0F6/

Obvs, French-built PSA cars did not use Mexican-assembled airbags...

Clcatt91

Well just to keep everyone updated, I finally got my letter through yesterday about the stop drive! Better late than never I guess. I am booked in to get my air bags done, 2 weeks time which to be fair is better than I was expecting. In the mean time im just relying on lifts. Not much else I can do by the sounds of it. Next car definitely won't be a citroen, that's for sure!

ontheroad1970

Clcatt91 said:

Well just to keep everyone updated, I finally got my letter through yesterday about the stop drive! Better late than never I guess. I am booked in to get my air bags done, 2 weeks time which to be fair is better than I was expecting. In the mean time im just relying on lifts. Not much else I can do by the sounds of it. Next car definitely won't be a citroen, that's for sure!

Quite hard to avoid Stellantis.  Vauxhall, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Jeep, Peugeot as well as Citroěn

froggybrolly

Mildly_Miffed said:

pop77db said:

My daughter has a 2012 DS3 and her local dealership told her that they have 300 airbags on order and no idea when they will get to her. She asked about the do not drive and, rudely, said 'what does it say on the letter, do not drive'. I double checked it and nowhere on any documentation she has received does it say do not drive, not even the dvsa leaflet. It has only been on news articles we've seen this. I'm trying to find more clarity on it as she's refusing to stop driving it.

[...]

"Stellantis UK Announces Stop-Drive
...
Stellantis UK announces an immediate stop-drive action ... Owners of such vehicles should immediately cease using their vehicle when safe to do so."

It is very clear.

The risk is the same as it's been all along - she basically runs the risk of having a claymore mine on her steering wheel. If/when the airbag deploys, there is a high risk of fatal injuries from metal shrapnel as the housing of the bag breaks up.

This is what caused the French fatality ten days ago which has prompted this stop-drive notice on top of the pre-existing recall. The driver of a C3 swerved on the autoroute to avoid a truck, hit the barrier lightly but sufficiently for the airbag to deploy... and she suffered fatal injuries from the airbag itself.

There is a suggestion up-thread of a "dangerous" MOT fail on the recall notice alone. I can't see anything that covers this in the tester's manual, so would be inclined to put that in the same "urban myth" category as "you won't be insured". The one possible situation would be...
[...] mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/introduction#section-4
"The reasons for refusing to carry out the test are:
h. The condition of the vehicle is such that, in the opinion of the tester, a proper examination would involve a danger of injury to any person or damage to the vehicle or other property."

...but that won't be recorded as a test fail, let alone dangerous, because no test would be carried out.

In the event of a collision that caused the airbag to be deployed, though, I can certainly see how insurers may view serious injuries resulting as being due to the driver's neglect, which would affect any payout.

The other alternative would be pulling the SRS fuse to disable the airbags. This would remove the risk in the event of deployment, but at the expense of increased risk from, well, no airbags or pretensioners in the event of a collision. Again, insurance will have something to say - as would Mr MOT.

It's all about her attitude to risk. She cannot say she has not been warned. Should the worst happen, she is aware of the possible consequences. The ball is in her court. You may wish to try to sway her decision, but it is her decision.

I'm not sure I'd dismiss all this as an "urban myth". My partner finally had the letter come through for her DS 3, and although the DVSA leaflet seemed generic, it included strong warnings about the driver's responsibility for ensuring the vehicle is in a safe and non dangerous condition.

GOV.UK is more forceful about this; on its page about vehicle recalls ("Recalled vehicles, parts and accessories" -- sorry, I can't post links on MSE yet...), it notes that "You can be fined up to £2,500, be banned from driving and get 3 penalty points for driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition." -- referring, I believe, to s.40A of the Road Traffic Act 1988:

A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when—
(a) the condition of the motor vehicle or trailer, or of its accessories or equipment, or
[...]
is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person.

Although it's hard to say the airbags in a specific vehicle are definitely defective without checking, I would suggest that the 'stop drive' recall notice implies driving the car would indeed involve 'a danger of injury' unless the airbags have had the all-clear.

tattyhead

I’m being passed from dealership to customer care and both say the other should sort. They gave owners replacement cars in France. “To minimise the impact on customers, dealers will lend replacement cars, including used models, so that customers are not left without a mobility solution. All cars in their fleets will be available to meet this demand” https://en.passionnement-citroen.com/post/citroen-new-recall-campaign-for-takata-airbags-in-c3-and-ds3

judek28

I booked an appointment as soon as I got the recall letter. The first one was mid July. The Do Not Drive letter came yesterday. My insurance company have told me it is not insured to drive at all, even to the appointment. The dealership can’t help with transporting the car as they haven’t the capacity and Citroen UK call wait times yesterday meant I couldn’t speak to them. I’ll be trying again this morning, but think I’ll end up arranging and paying for my own transporter and hopefully claiming it back. Yesterday the dealerships were booking people in for October so it’s a right mess, and I can’t find any information on the website to give information about claiming anything back.