Is this a fair quote for a porch build?

Section62

dllive said:

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Im thinking of having the WC to the left of the porch door. This is mostly becuase the rear of the property (the right hand side) has the views. I wouldnt want to lose the view becuase of a WC.

Regards size of WC, Im not sure what I can get away with. 1.5m dictates the width of it. So perhaps 1m for the length? Or is a 1.5m x 1m to small to comfortably fit a toilet and basin in?

Should the WC door be hinged so it opens into the porch, or into the WC? Heres the plan with my initial thoughts on the WC layout. (Obviously Ive no idea what Im doing, so perhaps theres a better way of laying it out?).

Obviously Building Control will need to be involved. What are the questions/comments theyll likely make? Hopefully my builder can advise as Im sure hes had lots of experience with BC (he's done extensions and renovations etc).

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If you add a WC and basin then it won't be a porch anymore, it would be classed as an extension.  Depending on circumstances, you might find you'd need planning consent for an extension.  It would also change the requirements for building regs, for example insulation and ventilation.

1m isn't enough depth for a toilet.  You need around 500mm minimum between the front of the pan and the wall which is opposite. More if the WC is to be classed as 'accessible'.  You could get a WC in the porch/extension, but you'll end up with much less 'porch' space, and you'll need to radically alter the design 

You'll probably get advice that complying with planning and building control requirements is 'optional', but the truth is the council will have up to 10 years to start enforcement against you (and maybe the builder) if you don't follow the rules.  And when you come to sell you are likely to be asked for evidence of the consents for the work (or pay for an indemnity policy).

Changing the scope of a building project part-way through construction is generally a really bad idea.  The builder would be entitled to charge you significantly more for doing the extra work now than if it had been priced in from the start.  That is the crux of TELLIT01's comment, particularly "bitten once too often by customers"... people start off wanting a porch, then once the materials are delivered and groundworks done they decide they want an extension (with plumbing) instead.

You'll want to think carefully about how much you really want that WC and what you'd be willing to pay for it... and also whether you'd be willing to accept delays to get all the paperwork in order, or take on the risk of the work potentially being done unlawfully.

dllive

@WIAWSNB  : Haha, seems like ages ago when I first posted this. I had a devil of a job finding a builder, but Im pleased with who Ive found as they seem great, and this is very much a bread-and-butter job for them.

I found this last night which is interesting: https://ukbathroomguru.com/minimum-size-for-a-downstairs-toilet/

@GDB2222  : Yes. Perhaps I picked out a very old plan (I have lots of files about the porch, so this was probably the first plan I drew-up which is a bit loosey-goosey. Ill find a later plane with correct measurements on!)

@Section62  : Yes, all fair points, and well made. I will speak to the builder and see what he says. Im fully aware its 'project creep' (which I suffer from in my own line of work, so know how frustrating it is!). If he thinks it will be relatively straight forward regards BC, and the additional work, then Ill go for it. But Im also resigned to the fact that I may have left it too late to deviate at this stage. So, Ill see what he thinks.

Regards planning consent: Im on Dartnooor. I have had planning approved. It may be that - becuase the existing door is an 'external' door, it wont need planning consent, and also becuase I wont be extending the footprint. Or - as you say - the fact that there will now be a loo, it will need PC. I dont know.

Section62

dllive said:

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Section62  : Yes, all fair points, and well made. I will speak to the builder and see what he says. Im fully aware its 'project creep' (which I suffer from in my own line of work, so know how frustrating it is!). If he thinks it will be relatively straight forward regards BC, and the additional work, then Ill go for it. But Im also resigned to the fact that I may have left it too late to deviate at this stage. So, Ill see what he thinks.

Regards planning consent: Im on Dartnooor. I have had planning approved. It may be that - becuase the existing door is an 'external' door, it wont need planning consent, and also becuase I wont be extending the footprint. Or - as you say - the fact that there will now be a loo, it will need PC. I dont know.

The existing door being 'external' is relevant for a porch, but permitted development rules for porches are quite specific, and adding a WC almost certainly takes you into the extension category.  If you are building an extension then the existing 'external' door becomes an internal one.

And you are extending the footprint?  Although this isn't particularly relevant as planning rules aren't just about changes in the size of the structure.  Conversion of a porch or conservatory into an extension of exactly the same size may still need planning consent, unless the extension can be built as permitted development.

And that will be the main question - is the work you are doing classed as permitted development?  That will depend on many factors, and if you are within the National Park then permitted development rights are likely to be limited, so don't rely on generic advice which applies in other areas.  What was the previous planning consent for, and was it from the Park Authority?

dllive

Hi guys,

Ive just spoken to the builder. He wasnt put-out that Im thinking of adding a loo. He's going to send me a revised quote, and he'll do another job while I get approval, and then come back and do the works.

@Section62: The previous planning consent is for "Replacement Porch".

Im not increasing the footprint. But - as you say - its now no longer a porch and is habitable space.

So, what are the next steps I need to take?

Do I need to contact Dartmoor National Park Authority to see if I need to go through planning again, and then approach Building Control? 

Many thanks

Section62

dllive said:

Hi guys,

Ive just spoken to the builder. He wasnt put-out that Im thinking of adding a loo. He's going to send me a revised quote, and he'll do another job while I get approval, and then come back and do the works.

Section62: The previous planning consent is for "Replacement Porch".

Im not increasing the footprint. But - as you say - its now no longer a porch and is habitable space.

I wonder if we are talking cross-purposes? From what I understood the new structure will have an outline something like the purple line, and the length of the 'porch' would be extended as per the red arrows?

If so the footprint of the structure is being increased.  Or do you mean you aren't increasing the footprint in the latest proposal (with toilet) vs the proposal you're already started building?

But as I said previously, the footprint doesn't matter much if what you want to do isn't permitted development.

dllive said:

So, what are the next steps I need to take?

Do I need to contact Dartmoor National Park Authority to see if I need to go through planning again, and then approach Building Control? 

If it was Dartmoor National Park Authority that gave you consent as planning authority then it would be them you have to go back to in order to request a change.  If you are only changing the internal layout then they might allow it through one of the minor amendment processes, rather than requiring you to make a full application again.  No point going to Building Control until you've got the planning side sorted out.

dllive

Apologies @Section62 . To clarify: I have planning consent for the increased porch size (as per your purple line). So Im not increasing the footprint of what Ive already had planning permission for; Im only adding a loo within the new structure.

Since my last post I have emailed Dartmoor National Park Authority the below. (I hope I got my wording correct!)

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I have planning permission for a replacement porch at my property (planning reference: ###/####).

I am writing to confirm whether any further planning action is required if I add a small WC internally within the already approved porch footprint.

To be clear:

* There is no increase in footprint, volume, or height

* There are no external changes to the approved design

* The WC would be entirely internal, using the approved porch envelope

My understanding is that this would not require a new planning application, and may either require no action or, if necessary, be dealt with as a non-material amendment.

I would be grateful if you could confirm the correct approach before I proceed to Building Regulations approval.

=====

So - like you say - Ill just hang tight and see what they say?

Section62

dllive said:

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So - like you say - Ill just hang tight and see what they say?

Yes, although in their position I'd probably query the "no external changes to the approved design" point - at a minimum you'll need to change some of the glazing to obscured glass, and more likely change from glazing to solid walls.  You'll probably also need to change how wide the window is at the toilet end of the porch because you'd want that mullion to align with the internal wall of the toilet.

But for now, wait and see.

dllive

Thanks. Yes, youre right. I dont want to go through the whole rigmarole of going through the planning process again. I do want to lose one of the windows, and make the other window smaller. I havnt got that far yet. Ill see what they say and post an update.

WIAWSNB

You've informed them, dllive, so let's see what they say.

dllive

Hi all,

Just a quick update:

The builder has said he will hold-off the job for now, and come back likely end of February. This is good as it should give me enough time to have a good think about the WC.

I heard back from Dartmoor National Park Authority today. As expected, they said that Id need to submit a Non Material Amendment application (£44, which is nothing).

Once I submit the application, how long do you think it will take them to confirm? Maybe 30 days? If so, I better get my skates on and think exactly what needs to change on the plan.

My initial thoughts are:



Heres the original proposed plan for ref:

Do you think my arrangements of toilet/basin/door opening can be improved? (perhaps door should open out into the porch against the window?)

Does the extractor vent need to appear on the proposed plan?

What do you think of the size/style of the W/C window? Presumably both sections (fixed pane and top-hinged pane) should be glazed?

Anything else I may need need to think about? (The builder suggested there would be room for a shower!)

Many thanks