Is this a fair quote for a porch build?

dllive

Hi all

I have a delapidated side porch which I want replaced. A very slightly larger footprint (only by 2 square metres!).

What I currently have:

My dodgy photoshop mockup of what I would like (this is obviously very rough! But gives an idea):

Floorplan (things have change slightly since I did this, but it gives an idea of floorspace):

Elevation:

This is an Estimate Ive had:

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Porch

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To carefully demolish the existing Porch and cart away .

To break up existing concrete ramp , excavate to reduced level and cart away.

To demolish redundant masonry and cart away.

To excavate for foundation trench on line of new walls and cart away.  Concrete foundations .

To hack off render from existing house wall , area within new porch and loose area above .  Not exceeding 14 sq m 

To recess existing wall to allow incoming main to go behind the new wall plate.

To render wall , double out , scratch coat , float coat , rough cast textured to match existing adjacent .

To reduce void below porch with block on flat and RC Lintels.

To build a 100mm concrete block wall off of the new footings and end wall including new lintels forming new sub floor.

To install 100mm D.P.C. .

To Frame up structure with 150x150 corner posts , 150x 50 lintel and 150x50 posts between PVC Frames.

To build porch from 100x50 4RC TR timber as agreed , including triangular gables.   12mm plasterboard and skimmed internally.

Install vapour barrier internally.  Install 90mm Cellotex between studs . clad externally with 9mm OSB , then breather membrane.

25 x 50 vertical battens forming vented void with fly screen vents  Top and Bottom .

Clad externally with Hardy Backer Board and rough cast render with bell cast drip at bottom.

To install 150x50 4RC Tr rafters at 400mm ccs . 50x25 battens to both sides with new plywood soffit recessed.

50mm cellotex between rafters .  Rafters nogged above  wall plate to seal up room.

To apply breathable underlay , 50x25 battens and natural20x10 slates Nailed on.

Join roof neatly to chimney launching , install lead cover flashing .

To install plywood soffit and SW Treated fascia board , c/w black 112mm PVC half round gutter and 63mm downpipes.

To whack ground internally build up to level with hardcore , whack again , install sand blinding and whack again.

Install PVC D.P.M. and concrete slab over.

To add a layer of cellotex and a 75mm fine concrete slab.

To tile floor area complete with tiles of your choice P.C. supply. £50.00.

To supply and install White Herritage windows and doors as discussed  , comprising end window side hung next to fixed.

next window all fixed, double doors opening out with Left hand door as master.two further fixed windows along the front , and a top

hung window on the other end adjacent the chimney breast.  All windows to have trickle vents, and be trimmed in with white PVC architrave.

To install a narrow window board at the bottom of every window.

Decorations :-     A sum of  £ 1,400.00 has been included for this work.

All for the sum of £ 26,428.72. plus Vat

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So, thats £30k for a side porch of about 6.5 square metres.

Does that sound about right?

Thanks

Bigphil1474

Sounds expensive to me. They used to say around £2-3k per square meter for extensions, but that was pre Covid. Obviously, the bigger the extension, the less per square meter rate. However, at under 7 square meters, yours is around £4.7k per square meter. (The VAT is over £5k). That rule of thumb is out of date now clearly, but I would have thought £3-4k is still realistic. Also depends on the quality of doors/windows etc. Even if you are happy with it, get another couple of quotes. 

WIAWSNB

Insane quote.

What happened to the quotes from carpenters, a couple of years back? I would consider completely timber builds, with panels or cladding on the dwarf wall sections. The lower wall could even be rendered to match the existing house, as shown in your pic above; tyvek, SSteel mesh, render, paint.

4x2 timber frame, SIP-style construction - ie, OSB sandwich with full insulation filling - and a lightweight GRP 'slate' roof.   

What a project!

This style, from your previous thread, would look ace, but could be rendered too. All built by a joiner/competent handyfellow:

£10k?

dllive

Thanks @WIAWSNB . Problem Im finding is guys that are willing to do the job! Since my previous thread, Ive spoken to around 7 guys, ranging from general builders to carpenters. They come out, we get on really well and have a good chat about whats needed, and then I dont hear from them again!! (despite me giving them a follow-up msg a few weeks after). 

I have had 2 other quotes, both came in about £8k cheaper, but it was all a bit scant on detail. At least with this latest one hes had a good go at itemising the jobs. (although a figure next to each would have been useful!)

As you say, I just need a good handyman to do the job. But its a devil of a job trying to find one!

WIAWSNB

dllive said:

Thanks @WIAWSNB . Problem Im finding is guys that are willing to do the job! Since my previous thread, Ive spoken to around 7 guys, ranging from general builders to carpenters. They come out, we get on really well and have a good chat about whats needed, and then I dont hear from them again!! (despite me giving them a follow-up msg a few weeks after). 

I have had 2 other quotes, both came in about £8k cheaper, but it was all a bit scant on detail. At least with this latest one hes had a good go at itemising the jobs. (although a figure next to each would have been useful!)

As you say, I just need a good handyman to do the job. But its a devil of a job trying to find one!

Yup, a nightmare.
The quote you showed was certainly 'detailed'... Actually too much so, as tho' designed to look impressive :-) And therefore expensive.
The other quotes you had, were they accompanied by drawings or an idea of the design? 

WIAWSNB

Of the two designs shown above, dllive, I have to say I'm still much drawn to the latter one in green (can be any colour).
A few reasons;
The first design has too much glass for me - it looks a bit like a lean-to greenhouse. It'll be bright inside, yes, but it won't be 'cosy'. 
The door is exposed, so you'll be getting wet as you fumble for the keys.
All wet coats and boots will be stored inside, where it'll look untidy, add to a damp feel, and will take ages to dry out - far better to have them outside under an open canopy where they'll dry out quickly and out of the way.
The green design has that welcoming canopy - a really nice feature in its own right.
The green design is 100% chippy-built, or a competent handyperson - no general builder required.
Only drawback of the green design is that the entrance is at the end, so any relaxing chair inside that porch could get in the way - will there be enough width to get past it? (Just looked at your dims - internal width could be around 1.2m, possibly slightly more = plenty )

I'd personally begin that green design by bedding down 2 or three PS concrete lintels (or equivalents - could be timber, if properly protected), from which the porch is then built. These would go the full porch length, right to the outside house corner, so that short overhang is cantilevered and self-supporting. 
The porch floor height would be raised to closely match that of the house, so the 'step' is moved externally to the canopy area as shown in that example. 
Then, it's pure timber construction - what a dream. Any non-opening windows - say at the overhang end - can be built in situ - just a frame with a DG unit fitted - super cheap. Lightweight faux-slate roof. 
Magic. 

dllive

@WIAWSNB . The other two quotes were very different to each other: 1 was fully bulleted; the other one was literally a few paragraphs! I just dont understand why they cant supply an actual itemised quote with a price next to each!! Even if its just ball park. Then at least I know whats costing what!!! Obviously, theres a reason why they dont do this!

@WIAWSNB all your feedback are good points well made. If you ever find yourself in the South West and want a bit of cash-in-hand give me a shout!

QrizB

dllive said:

Thanks @WIAWSNB . Problem Im finding is guys that are willing to do the job! Since my previous thread, Ive spoken to around 7 guys, ranging from general builders to carpenters.

I can hardly believe I'm suggesting this (as so many of them are cowboys) but what about asking a conservatory firm for a quote?

dllive

QrizB said:

dllive said:

Thanks @WIAWSNB . Problem Im finding is guys that are willing to do the job! Since my previous thread, Ive spoken to around 7 guys, ranging from general builders to carpenters.

I can hardly believe I'm suggesting this (as so many of them are cowboys) but what about asking a conservatory firm for a quote?

Thanks. Ive already been down this road. Equally hideously expensive. (and like you say, a couple of raised me heckles immediately!).

I do have to remind myself that everything had got a lot more expensive since lockdown. But even so!

stuart45

It's definitely at the top end of the price range. The problem is in the present climate to get a number of other quotes from decent builders. It depends how much you need the porch. I've worked in the building trade all of my working life and could never afford to have builders in, especially nowadays. I can understand why so many people are turning to DIY. 

Grumpy_chap

Bigphil1474 said:

per square meter for extensions

I am not familiar with current rates, but a per square meter (or per meter cubed) comparator is reasonable as a starting point.  It has to be remembered that a smaller extension will always be towards the higher end of any  comparator range.  It is just as hard to set out a line for 1 m as 4 m.  The complexity of a corner and the roof apex is just the same whether each side wall is 1 m or 4 m.  The straight walls are, to most intents, simply time and materials difference for 4 m than 1 m.

dllive said:

So, thats £30k for a side porch of about 6.5 square metres.

Does that sound about right?

dllive said:

I have had 2 other quotes, both came in about £8k cheaper, 

£30k sounds expensive to me, but I am not up on current rates.

The best way to bench-mark the rate is competitive quotes.  That has been done.  The benchmark is £8k less.
The OP feels more confident in the higher quote.  Is that confidence worth £8k?
Has the OP checked reviews / trusted personal recommendations for the two cheaper quotes?
Small, local building firms tend not to be the best at setting out great detail in a quote.

One option would be too chose the best of the two cheaper quotes and set the remaining £8k to one side to "oil the wheels" of the cheaper quote should any extra lubrication be required to ensure a great job.  If the OP has to dip into the £8k pot to an extra £2k, the OP is still up on the deal.

I would also have suggested the conservatory companies, but the OP says that has been considered and not preferred.