Filled in the wrong vehicle Reg - Advice sought.

Coupon-mad

Coupon-mad said:

Right. I've been a lay rep in court (never lost) and I would not pay these.

You owe nothing.

A judge would likely agree with YOU.

There's no cause of action against you.

There's no risk by ignoring them.

RCP don't litigate anyway. Tiny company.

Why not give POPLA a go anyway, then ignore them if you lose?

As above. My advice hasn't changed.

Let's see the view from the entrance and the t&cs sign near the P&D machine or wherever they are in the car park. Include a close up.

We need to see those pics of the signs including the entrance sign (or lack of) and the terms on the sign.

Also, have you spotted the discrepancy between the contravention as stated on the NTK (which is impossible because you used an app) and the fact RCP changed it in the appeal refusal?

If they do take it court: Fight it as an  "aggrieved unsuspecting victim of a genuine mistake" 

Not at all!

That's not how to defend a simple small claim.

It would be based on the winning legal argument that there is no 'legitimate interest' in pursuing a Defendant who paid in full.

There was no loss, and from your appeal efforts, they know full well the vehicle that the payments related to (and the other one wasn't in the car park).

In a judgment dated 10th June 2024, His Honour Judge Pema (sitting at the County Court at Bradford) refused Excel Parking Services Ltd's attempt to appeal the decision in Case no K4QZ4Y21:

Do you see?

That's a Circuit Judge confirming a county court judge was right (case exactly like yours).

Gr1pr

Octonaught said:

Which as I presently understand it are:

1) Pay the PCN for the temporarily reduced amount of £40. Case closed.

2) Ignore the PCN, get sent threatening letters for increasing amounts. Hoping then that eventually the company give up and don't bother escalating it to the small claims court (CM says likely, Gr1pr says possible) - case closed.  

3) If they do take it court:

Fight it as an  "aggrieved unsuspecting victim of a genuine mistake" 

Win = case closed (CM says likely, Gr1pr says possible but no guarantees.)

Lose = even bigger bill of £300+ and bailiffs if not paid.

4) Appeal to POPLA on an inadequate signage angle etc (Pretty sure there is plenty of adequate signage unfortunately).If I don't win, either pay £200 or see point 2)

3) or fight it on the basis CM stated,  we are just offering possible avenues you can try, clearly her advice based on other cases is probably a better stance, none of us are lawyers,  just volunteers on a saving money forum,  we are giving you ideas,  so using a similar defence to a case already decided is clearly a strong defence 

Lose  - a typical loss of over £300 doesn't involve bailiffs,  especially as that threshold is £600.  So double,  No idea where you got that idea from.  You get a CCJ if not paid in full within 30 days,  not bailiffs 

I have renumbered for extra clarity 

For your clarity,  we respect the experience,  knowledge and capabilities of veteran fighters on here, plus a handful of lawyers too, so as a forum is a meeting place for ideas etc, no problem in me yielding to someone with better advice or knowledge like CM, or Troublemaker22 or Bargepole or Johnersh etc, especially if they have legal knowledge and experience. We are offering suggestions,  it's not a competition  !

I asked you if you had decided to pay or fight, you said that you were going to suck it up and pay, so I erred on the side of caution,  based on your reply,  informing you of possible consequences based on numerous other cases on here. Most of the current threads here are about court claims,  not keying errors ( 12 years ago it was about pcns,  not court claims,  so the exact opposite  ). Clearly I wasn't going to focus on the fight option!

Coupon-mad almost always says fight, so is always going to lean towards advice on fighting them 

Point of order, for clarity, you have 2 x £100 pcns, currently set at £20 each for early settlement,  not one PCN at £40

So anyone looking at this thread needs to know what the figures are about,  so twice the usual total due to there being two pcns, not one. I was going to correct your figures until I remembered that it was 2 pcns 

Octonaught

I returned to take photos yesterday. It appears to be a lot of brand new signage since I parked there 2 weeks or so ago, but I have no idea how much has changed between the two visits (beyond the prices).

 As these are new signs, does that make them irrelevant to this case?

After sending the initial PCNs, when I logged into the company's online portal to explain my keying error, there were a number of extra photos of my vehicle as well as photos indicating the signage at that time on there. The postal PCN sent to me only had 2 of these photos, (of my vehicle.) Having responded to my statement re keying errors, I no longer have access to these photos, the website wont let me in.

Coupon-mad

No worries: if they contest the POPLA appeal they'll have to show the sign that was there.

Gr1pr

So a patroller did it Manually,  so MNPR,  no biggie,  they can use either,  or both 

Their listing on the BPA AOS members list says NO under ANPR,  but YES to Windscreen ticketing,  as in MNPR, regardless of what the sign says

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/bpa-approved-operators

Coupon-mad

It will be interesting to see what the signs were like when you were there. Those look brand new, as you say.

Octonaught

Coupon-mad said:

It will be interesting to see what the signs were like when you were there. Those look brand new, as you say.

Very similar, although I seem to remember there was a much more prominent one suggesting to pay via the app which is what got me in the mess in the first place by auto filling my old reg. Had I used the machine there would have been a ticket in the the windscreen and non of this BS to deal with.

OK, having seen the photos, what do you advise I do now RE the POPLA?

Coupon-mad

The photos are irrelevant if you are saying the signs were different. Just try a POPLA appeal OR live your life and don't bother.

Your choice! Either way NO PAYING.