Bought house, wood burning stove gone!

Tiglet2

kinger101 said:

Tiglet2 said:

kinger101 said:

Tiglet2 said:

kinger101 said:

Tiglet2 said:

mikrt said:

Just found this on "Wayback machine"

"Living Room
A spacious through room with double glazed window to the front and bifold patio doors to the rear garden, oak flooring throughout, cylindrical feature log burner set on slate hearth"

I think I did say earlier on in this thread, that you shouldn't rely on the EA's sales particulars as they can be ambiguous.  It would be good form for a seller to tell the EA that the log burner wouldn't be staying, but the seller obviously didn't.  Of course, the EA might have asked the question, but didn't.  The EA is selling the property and goes round noting all the positives about a property, takes measurements, photos and provides a description of what there is.  

The sales particulars do not form part of the legal conveyancing, they are not attached to the contract and it is not to be relied upon as what you see is what you get.  If you visit a developer's new build show home, you know that all the furniture and decor won't be provided in the actual property you purchase, unless you're buying the show home.  Same principal here.  The F&C form is the only form to rely upon, but you had the opportunity before exchange to ask questions of both the seller, EA and your solicitor.

You might have said that but if the sales particulars state the house has a wood burner and a wood burner is there in the photographs, it is not ambiguous.

It is ambiguous because the sales particulars gave the impression that the wood burner was being left. However the seller didn’t let the EA know that it wasn’t included and the EA didn’t check that it was. 

I think you're confusing ambiguous with misleading.

And "gave the impression" with "stated".

While there is a due diligence process to house purchases, there are still standards an EA has to follow.  Which way do you think a complaint to the ombudsman scheme of which the solicitor is a member would go?   

The ombudsman would consider the Fixtures & Contents Form only.

They wouldn't consider that at all.  It's part of the conveyancing process. They'd consider the sales particulars.

This stuff is in plain site. Eg Property Ombudsman website.

EAs advertise, and the are legal requirements around that that have bend embodied within ombudsman's codes by which they must abide.

I was referring to the solicitor's legal ombudsman.  

FreeBear

daveyjp said:

Is a log burner a fixture or fitting?

It’s a fixture. It is affixed to the property and requires professional installation. It’s part of the property’s heating system and can’t be removed easily without causing damage.

A stove does not require "professional installation". It is not that difficult for one to do a DIY install. However, it does need Building Control sign-off.

I had my stove installed by a HETAS fitter as a) I didn't want to climb about on the roof to install a liner. b) The cost was only slightly more than the price of a liner & BC fees.

mikrt

Grumpy_chap said:

I just read this thread again and I am really rather struggling now to understand why the OP is so concerned about the issue.

It is the OP's son who purchased the house, and the OP's son seems rather unconcerned.

Maybe time for the OP to cut the reins and let the OP's son make their own choices and worry about their own priorities.

@Grumpy_chap What makes you think I'm so concerned?

I asked the question, and moved on.

I'm really rather struggling to understand why you think a father shouldn't take an interest in his child.

My son is unconcerned. I am unconcerned. 

I still think it's a reasonable question to ask on this forum.

As it happens, I cut the reins on my son when he moved away from home 15 years ago to London after Uni. He is now married with 3 kids and has his dream job at home hence the move back home, after making hundreds of his own good choices while away.

Sorry if you think I'm taking too much of an interest. 

GDB2222

mikrt said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I just read this thread again and I am really rather struggling now to understand why the OP is so concerned about the issue.

It is the OP's son who purchased the house, and the OP's son seems rather unconcerned.

Maybe time for the OP to cut the reins and let the OP's son make their own choices and worry about their own priorities.

@Grumpy_chap What makes you think I'm so concerned?

I asked the question, and moved on.

I'm really rather struggling to understand why you think a father shouldn't take an interest in his child.

My son is unconcerned. I am unconcerned. 

I still think it's a reasonable question to ask on this forum.

As it happens, I cut the reins on my son when he moved away from home 15 years ago to London after Uni. He is now married with 3 kids and has his dream job at home hence the move back home, after making hundreds of his own good choices while away.

Sorry if you think I'm taking too much of an interest. 

For what it’s worth, I think you have been entirely reasonable.  

Flugelhorn

BikingBud said:

Grumpy_chap said:

daveyjp said:

No need to put it on any list.  Was the gas boiler, the bath, the toilet, the kitchen units?

A woodburner, which forms an integral part of the property, is exactly the same and if removal is planned it needs to be negotiated as part of the sale.

The very first question on the F&F form is:

"Boiler / Immersion Heater" - Included - Excluded - None - Price £ - Comments

Bath is also listed. (section 3)

Fitted kitchen units are listed (section 7)

https://www.rlo.law/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/fc.pdf

Interesting to list wood at Section 10 - Stock of Fuel but there is no means to burn it as  fuel listed.

Given that it is something that is installed and the installation is subject to regulation I would expect it to be left installed. 

I would press with solicitors and ask them to return it or make good, remove flue and restore hose in ceiling, roof etc.

perhaps this one hadn't got building regs etc  

WIAWSNB

GDB2222 said:

mikrt said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I just read this thread again and I am really rather struggling now to understand why the OP is so concerned about the issue.

It is the OP's son who purchased the house, and the OP's son seems rather unconcerned.

Maybe time for the OP to cut the reins and let the OP's son make their own choices and worry about their own priorities.

@Grumpy_chap What makes you think I'm so concerned?

I asked the question, and moved on.

I'm really rather struggling to understand why you think a father shouldn't take an interest in his child.

My son is unconcerned. I am unconcerned. 

I still think it's a reasonable question to ask on this forum.

As it happens, I cut the reins on my son when he moved away from home 15 years ago to London after Uni. He is now married with 3 kids and has his dream job at home hence the move back home, after making hundreds of his own good choices while away.

Sorry if you think I'm taking too much of an interest. 

For what it’s worth, I think you have been entirely reasonable.  

Yes.
Grumpy usually makes excellent calls on here, so I was surprised at the one above. It's almost as tho he was a bit, um, grumpy. :-(

mikrt

Flugelhorn said:

BikingBud said:

Grumpy_chap said:

daveyjp said:

No need to put it on any list.  Was the gas boiler, the bath, the toilet, the kitchen units?

A woodburner, which forms an integral part of the property, is exactly the same and if removal is planned it needs to be negotiated as part of the sale.

The very first question on the F&F form is:

"Boiler / Immersion Heater" - Included - Excluded - None - Price £ - Comments

Bath is also listed. (section 3)

Fitted kitchen units are listed (section 7)

https://www.rlo.law/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/fc.pdf

Interesting to list wood at Section 10 - Stock of Fuel but there is no means to burn it as  fuel listed.

Given that it is something that is installed and the installation is subject to regulation I would expect it to be left installed. 

I would press with solicitors and ask them to return it or make good, remove flue and restore hose in ceiling, roof etc.

perhaps this one hadn't got building regs etc  

I am assuming  it has passed building control regs as it's only a 4 year old house and looks like it's been built in from new.

There's no rush to replace it as I guess it's a winter boost, but also visual attraction.

The house is super insulated with underfloor heating throughout, heat from ashp. There's no pv solar but 2 large solar water panels.

Once they've found a replaceable it should be a straight forward install. 

kimwp

Albermarle said:

kimwp said:

An interesting read-
https://www.dsawsp.org/secondhand-smoke/the-other-secondhand-smoke

I know there have been studies about the level of particulates emitted etc .
However as this study is by 'Doctors against wood smoke pollution' I think you have to read it in that context.

There are many studies and articles about this, I just chose an easy-to-read one.

jimbog

BungalowBel said:

When we sold our last house, we said we would leave 'curtains'.  We did, but a different set to those which the buyer had seen.  We felt that this fulfilled our end of the bargain.  The buyer never complained

They may have been embarrassed or disheartened. I can’t  imagine you or the EA using the words ‘leave curtains’ rather than ‘the curtains’. 

When buying something I assume I would get what I have seen rather than a random alternative 

RHemmings

jimbog said:

BungalowBel said:

When we sold our last house, we said we would leave 'curtains'.  We did, but a different set to those which the buyer had seen.  We felt that this fulfilled our end of the bargain.  The buyer never complained

They may have been embarrassed or disheartened. I can’t  imagine you or the EA using the words ‘leave curtains’ rather than ‘the curtains’. 

When buying something I assume I would get what I have seen rather than a random alternative 

If I saw 'curtains' listed, then I too would have expected to see the curtains that were in the house when I viewed. I would be particularly unimpressed by a seller who swapped them out for something different. Not that I'm suggesting that anything can be done by the buyers. But, as a seller, I certainly wouldn't do something like that myself.