Looking At Older Cars That Don't Have Modern Tech / Electronic Gizmos and Sensors etc......

scoot65

My 2001 Rover 45 failed it's MOT the other day. It needs some welding done to the susupension mounting points. The work is going to get done tomorrow and hopefully this will buy my another year or two.

This got me thinking. What is the general consensus for the sweet spot regarding model years for older cars that are fairly 'modern' to use as a daily driver, but don't have all the new tech, electrical gizmos / computers, sensors, questionable engine reliability ie wet belts etc etc.

   

Would cars from around 2010 / 2015 be free from the above?   

My trusty Rover 45 isn't going to last forever unfortunately......

 

Mark_d

I would look to but a reliable car, say Toyota or Kia, around 5 years old.  Like you I'm not interested in electrical gizmos - electric mirrors, reversing cameras etc. ..but in actual fact these are not the problem.  Some brands of car are terrible for reliability but others, whose cars include the equivalent technology, are the cream of the crop where reliability is concerned.

Mildly_Miffed

Emissions regs are the big driver for increased electronics, together with primary and secondary safety, and more recently sheer market demands for in-car tech.

Emissions: 
Euro6 (~2016) diesel brought AdBlue to reduce NOx.
Euro5 (~2010) diesel brought DPFs to reduce particulates.
Almost everything diesel from the mid 90s has electronically managed injection, quickly turning into common rail.
Anything petrol from 1992 onwards has a cat, with all bar the tiniest of outliers for the first year or two having electronic fuel injection. Fully mapped ignition joined that injection in full engine management through the mid 90s onwards.
Electronic ignition replaced points and condensers from the late 70s onwards, and then there was the joys of things like automatic chokes...
Electronic injection was first used in the 1960s, though.

Safety:
ABS started to become popular in the early 80s, but goes back to the early 70s, joined by traction control and stability control in the early 00s.
Airbags started to become ubiquitous in the early 90s, joined by pyrotechnic pretensioners and then multiplying in number through the turn of the millennium.

Of course, the further back you go, the thought that a car could reach a quarter of a century old before needing a little tickle with a welder became sheer fantasy... Can you imagine that of a 1961 car in 1985, or a 1971 car in 1995, or a 1981 car in 2005, or even a 1991 car in 2015?

And, yes, wet belts are rapidly gaining a reputation for unreliability... in very large part because of the huge extension of service intervals over the years. 6k/6mo intervals were common in the 80s, 9-12k/12mo by the late 90s. Now 20-30k and 2yr is not unusual, is it? (Dry) cambelt intervals had extended from the 70s to frequently be 60k/6yr intervals by the early 90s - now we'd be horrified by how short that is. A set of spark plugs is just about lifetime now, instead of every other oil change.

FlorayG

I was recently thinking about selling my 2003 Defender and getting something smaller. Every dealer went on and on about this gadget, that gadget, it's got this, it's got that...I just wanted a car that would go reliably and stop safely. In the end I decided to keep the Defender!

pseudodox

FlorayG said:

I was recently thinking about selling my 2003 Defender and getting something smaller. Every dealer went on and on about this gadget, that gadget, it's got this, it's got that...I just wanted a car that would go reliably and stop safely. In the end I decided to keep the Defender!

Good to hear of your 2003 vehicle still giving satisfactory service.  I am taking my 2005 car for her annual service and MOT next week.  Notwithstanding minor repairs over the years (all cars need new tyres, wipers, brake shoes etc) she runs like a dream and has very little that is complicated or that that can go expensively wrong.  So having passed her last 5 MOTs with flying colours I am keeping fingers crossed as I have no intention of replacing her.  When I bought this car about the most "exciting" feature the dealer pushed was the colour choice of the upholstery!

My elderly cousin drives a 2013 Defender and because of a minor incident he was sent for a driver assessment.  He has never had a serious accident, always driven big 4WDs, towed trailers and caravans and done years of rallying and off roading in very basic stripped out vehicles.  He was so confused by the gadgets, digital displays and gizmos of the assessment car he failed & to avoid a court appearance has to have driving lessons in a small modern gadget packed car in the hope he can pass a re-test only to get his beloved uncomplicated Defender back on the road

Car_54

Mark_d said:

I would look to but a reliable car, say Toyota or Kia, around 5 years old.  Like you I'm not interested in electrical gizmos - electric mirrors, reversing cameras etc. ..but in actual fact these are not the problem.  Some brands of car are terrible for reliability but others, whose cars include the equivalent technology, are the cream of the crop where reliability is concerned.

I agree entirely - reliability is paramount.

However, if the OP had listened to that advice in 2001 he probably wouldn't have bought a Rover ...

Mildly_Miffed

FlorayG said:

I was recently thinking about selling my 2003 Defender and getting something smaller. Every dealer went on and on about this gadget, that gadget, it's got this, it's got that...I just wanted a car that would go reliably and stop safely. In the end I decided to keep the Defender!

2003 would be a TD5? Common rail injection... Slated when it replaced the 300TDi in 1998 for being too complex, and the electronics would make it unreliable and impossible to repair...

As for 2013 - Ford Puma... Not even the Euro4 2.4, but the Euro5 2.2... Even more complex, DPF, variable geometry turbo, etc etc.

paul_c123

The problem is, the less complicated cars are now older and higher mileage. So their wearing parts (there's thousands of moving parts on a car too) are either worn out, or nearly there. Things that haven't really changed, like tyres, brake discs and pads, dampers, suspension bushes, wiper blades etc etc. 

Electronic stuff doesn't have moving parts (in general) so they're not going to wear out in the same way.

And older cars are going to suffer from 1) corrosion, 2) parts availability issues eventually.

Also, car manufacturers put more and more effort into economical mass production instead of overengineering their cars. 

tedted

i have a 1992 clipper no cat carb with choke and its not on the ega database normal emission test 

david29dpo

This has been on my mind for years.
Cars now sell on gadgets. Soon it will be if it hasn't got heated pedels or willy warmers it wont sell. Thats all buyers care about now.
I have never had a car with fuel injection, i want to be able to fix the car myself.
I drive a 1988 car, doubled in value in the 8 years i have owned it, parts are cheap and easy to find
I leave the modern money pits to others.

Mildly_Miffed

tedted said:

i have a 1992 clipper no cat carb with choke and its not on the ega database normal emission test 

What is this "clipper"?
A sailing ship used for carrying tea from the East Indies?
Packard Clipper?
Trident Clipper?
They were all out of production long before 1992, though.

Cats became compulsory on petrol cars with the inception of Euro1 emissions from August 1992, the start of J-prefix plates in the UK, but most manufacturers had been introducing them gradually in the years before that final deadline. Whatever your "clipper" turns out to be, it must have been a run-out model by then.

And, yes, a 1992 car with no cat will be subject to the basic non-cat 1986-1992 MOT emissions limit of 3.5% CO, 1200PPM HC (1975-86, same HC but 4.5% CO - pre-75, just not excessive visual smoke).
That's really, REALLY filthy by modern standards - anything catted should have near as dammit 0% CO or HC - which is unburnt fuel being wasted out of the exhaust.

With most cars now adhering to modern emission standards, we've forgotten just how unpleasant urban exhaust pollution used to be.