Returned three items, company claims I only returned one! £950 out of pocket!

Okell

Aylesbury_Duck said:

... Personally, I think a proper letter before action is likely to do the trick and get you a refund without going to court, but I'd try the S75 route first.

Yes - I think this is the best course of action:  s75 claim* against credit card provider first, then LBA if not successful, then issue a claim.

(I think I'd be content to risk £70 in court fees for the chance of getting £950 back)


@devnull10 - make it clear you are raising a s75 dispute and nothing to do with a chargeback

Okell

sheramber said:

Who is the company ?

Yes - it would be helpful to know...

m0bov

The fact the seller has refused to help investigate will count against them in court. I would definitely go with an lba and then mcol them. 

Btw you have no contract with Evri, the retailer should be working with them.

Alderbank

Okell said:

devnull10 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The court works on the balance of probabilities, and with neither party having definitive proof of their position, that's all that can happen.

A letter before action will cost you the price of a stamp, and it just might generate a different response.  If it doesn't, you'll need to decide whether to spend the court fee in the hope that you win, or write off the £950.  Personally, I'd take my chance in court, given the sum at stake.

Yeah, I think it was more a case of whether unless I had definite proof, I'd no chance of winning. I don't want to waste another £150 on going to court if it's completely worthless, especially after losing so much already...

Where do you get £150 from?  The fee for issuing a claim for £950 would be £70 I think?  Make a court claim for money: Court fees - GOV.UK

Claim fee of £70 and hearing fee of £85 is 'about £150', as OP said.

Okell

Alderbank said:

Okell said:

devnull10 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The court works on the balance of probabilities, and with neither party having definitive proof of their position, that's all that can happen.

A letter before action will cost you the price of a stamp, and it just might generate a different response.  If it doesn't, you'll need to decide whether to spend the court fee in the hope that you win, or write off the £950.  Personally, I'd take my chance in court, given the sum at stake.

Yeah, I think it was more a case of whether unless I had definite proof, I'd no chance of winning. I don't want to waste another £150 on going to court if it's completely worthless, especially after losing so much already...

Where do you get £150 from?  The fee for issuing a claim for £950 would be £70 I think?  Make a court claim for money: Court fees - GOV.UK

Claim fee of £70 and hearing fee of £85 is 'about £150', as OP said.

Doh!

Of course after a claim is issued it might not reach a hearing...

Grumpy_chap

The courier might well not have a record of the actual weight if the receiving depot has simply recorded the weight in the price band.  Obviously, the inconsistent communications do not help and, if what I suggest is the case, it would have been better for the courier to have simply stated "in the weight range 'up to 5kg'" or whatever.

devnull10

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Although court would be the right route (if a section 75 claim as suggested by Okell is unsuccessful) be aware that there is a long wait for court hearings, so even if you win, it will be many months before that money is back in your account.

To answer your earlier question, no, I don't think Evri can be summoned to provide anything.  It's up to the two parties to produce their supporting evidence and the court decides based on that.

Personally, I think a proper letter before action is likely to do the trick and get you a refund without going to court, but I'd try the S75 route first.

I've already tried the s75 route. Credit card company denied it because they said it was just my word against the retailer and in such instances they couldn't reverse the charge.

devnull10

Okell said:

devnull10 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The court works on the balance of probabilities, and with neither party having definitive proof of their position, that's all that can happen.

A letter before action will cost you the price of a stamp, and it just might generate a different response.  If it doesn't, you'll need to decide whether to spend the court fee in the hope that you win, or write off the £950.  Personally, I'd take my chance in court, given the sum at stake.

Yeah, I think it was more a case of whether unless I had definite proof, I'd no chance of winning. I don't want to waste another £150 on going to court if it's completely worthless, especially after losing so much already...

What do you mean by "definite proof"?

You say you sent the items back.  The seller says you didn't.  If you issue a court claim against the seller it becomes a simple question of who the court thinks is more likely to be telling the truth - you or the seller.  All you need to win would be for the court to decide that you are 51% more likely to be telling the truth than the seller. 

How do you think the seller will be able to produce "definite proof" that you never sent the items back?

(NB - The fact that the return was organised and paid for by the seller actually works in your favour.  The returned goods were no longer your responsibility from the time Evri collected them.  If you sent the goods back with Evri but they didn't reach the seller, that's the seller's problem, not yours.  The seller selected Evri, not you.)

Where do you get £150 from?  The fee for issuing a claim for £950 would be £70 I think?  Make a court claim for money: Court fees - GOV.UK

I meant that would a court perhaps just look at it as being a case of unless absolute proof is provided, they don't award it? I.e. the same stance the credit card company took, which was if it's my word against theirs, then in the absence of any other evidence such as photos of the parcel contents before posting (which I said to them would be irrelevant anyway, as that doesn't prove I actually posted those!), it still stands?

Yeah, the fee to lodge with the small claims is £70, however if they choose to fight and it ends up actually going to a court (i.e. in front of a judge) then there's an additional court fee to pay which is around the £80 mark IIRC.

devnull10

sheramber said:

Who is the company ?

Size?. I subsidiary company of JD Sports. 

https://m.size.co.uk/

born_again

Okell said:

devnull10 said:

... I've tried contacting Evri to get the weight of the parcel, which is just !!!!!! in the wind - I've had 5 different responses ranging from we don't have it, to it weighed 1 gram, to it weighed exactly 5000 grams. 😡 It's impossible to speak to a human either online or via telephone, and the responses in getting to my case with them are absolutely useless. As I didn't arrange the return, I have very little options it seems. I've asked the company to review CCTV but they've refused. I suspect an employee has received it and only scanned one item (either accidentally ordered on purpose) and they're refusing to help any further.

I've also contacted citizens advice who just reiterated some templated response about notifying a company of intent to return goods within 14 days, and couldn't help any further.

I know I could go to small claims, but I literally can't prove I sent three items back, unless they get the weight from Evri, which they're refusing to do. So I presume I'd have no chance of winning.

Any suggestions???

Do you have their 5 different responses in writing?  (ie email, text, whatsapp etc).

I would suggest that you point out to the retailer that if you take them to court (which you certainly will if they don't refund you £950), that a judge might not look too kindly on their self contradictory responses to you that (1) we don't know what weight it was; (2) it weighed 1g; (3) it weighed 5kg.

Suggest to them that in the light of their nonsensical responses that a judge would probably be more likely to believe you than to believe them.

Apart from a court claim you could go back to your credit card issuer and tell them you are making a s75 claim and not a chargeback claim.  As with the retailer point out the contradictory nature of their responses and ask who a judge might be more likely to believe.  You with a consistent narrative or the seller with an inconsitent narrative?

Regarding the CAB advice and their template response, have you actually tried that with the seller?

I suspect the substance of the CAB advice is that you have a statutory right to cancel a distance order within 14 days of receipt of the goods.  (This is independent of any separate returns policy the seller might have and to exercise your statutory right you have to clearly inform the seller that you are cancelling the contract.  Bear this in mind in future).  You then have a further 14 days in which to retrun the goods and so long as you can provide proof of sending the goods back you are entitled to a refund even if the return "falls off the back of the lorry".

Given a rejected chargeback a S75 would be rejected on the grounds the company gave for the chargeback.