Returned three items, company claims I only returned one! £950 out of pocket!

devnull10

I bought three items of clothing (coats) from an online store in England, received and decided I didn't like them (I'd always intended to return two of them anyway, I'd ordered 3 to compare as I wasn't sure which I wanted from viewing online and thought this would be better than doing potentially three separate orders/returns).

Sent via the companies returns process, which gave me a label with Evri. I returned all three items in the same box they arrived in, I took a photo out the outside of the box but nothing else.

Company has claimed they only received one item in the box and is refusing to investigate further. They have refunded me for one item, but I'm £950 out of pocket now (cost for 2 items).

Raised with my credit card company who after investigation, have said because it's my word against theirs (I've no evidence that I actually sent 3 items back), they won't honour the chargeback. The retailer refused to provide the proof of weight, so it was literally me saying I'd sent 3, them saying I'd sent 1.

Do I have any options here at all?? I've tried contacting Evri to get the weight of the parcel, which is just !!!!!! in the wind - I've had 5 different responses ranging from we don't have it, to it weighed 1 gram, to it weighed exactly 5000 grams. 😡 It's impossible to speak to a human either online or via telephone, and the responses in getting to my case with them are absolutely useless. As I didn't arrange the return, I have very little options it seems. I've asked the company to review CCTV but they've refused. I suspect an employee has received it and only scanned one item (either accidentally ordered on purpose) and they're refusing to help any further.

I've also contacted citizens advice who just reiterated some templated response about notifying a company of intent to return goods within 14 days, and couldn't help any further.

I know I could go to small claims, but I literally can't prove I sent three items back, unless they get the weight from Evri, which they're refusing to do. So I presume I'd have no chance of winning.

Any suggestions???

Aylesbury_Duck

Small claims (or at least the threat of it) is your only remaining option.

devnull10

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Small claims (or at least the threat of it) is your only remaining option.

Yeah, I suspected that - though what is my argument other than "why would I risk going to jail trying to scam a company out of £950"? Because other than that it's literally just me saying I sent 3 back, them saying I sent 1 back, and neither able to prove it. They sent their inbound receipt to the credit card company, though all that shows is they scanned one in - which I knew already. My photo of the box only shows the closed box with the label on (I took it simply so I could track the return).

Aylesbury_Duck

The court works on the balance of probabilities, and with neither party having definitive proof of their position, that's all that can happen.

A letter before action will cost you the price of a stamp, and it just might generate a different response.  If it doesn't, you'll need to decide whether to spend the court fee in the hope that you win, or write off the £950.  Personally, I'd take my chance in court, given the sum at stake.

Okell

devnull10 said:

... I've tried contacting Evri to get the weight of the parcel, which is just !!!!!! in the wind - I've had 5 different responses ranging from we don't have it, to it weighed 1 gram, to it weighed exactly 5000 grams. 😡 It's impossible to speak to a human either online or via telephone, and the responses in getting to my case with them are absolutely useless. As I didn't arrange the return, I have very little options it seems. I've asked the company to review CCTV but they've refused. I suspect an employee has received it and only scanned one item (either accidentally ordered on purpose) and they're refusing to help any further.

I've also contacted citizens advice who just reiterated some templated response about notifying a company of intent to return goods within 14 days, and couldn't help any further.

I know I could go to small claims, but I literally can't prove I sent three items back, unless they get the weight from Evri, which they're refusing to do. So I presume I'd have no chance of winning.

Any suggestions???

Do you have their 5 different responses in writing?  (ie email, text, whatsapp etc).

I would suggest that you point out to the retailer that if you take them to court (which you certainly will if they don't refund you £950), that a judge might not look too kindly on their self contradictory responses to you that (1) we don't know what weight it was; (2) it weighed 1g; (3) it weighed 5kg.

Suggest to them that in the light of their nonsensical responses that a judge would probably be more likely to believe you than to believe them.

Apart from a court claim you could go back to your credit card issuer and tell them you are making a s75 claim and not a chargeback claim.  As with the retailer point out the contradictory nature of their responses and ask who a judge might be more likely to believe.  You with a consistent narrative or the seller with an inconsitent narrative?

Regarding the CAB advice and their template response, have you actually tried that with the seller?

I suspect the substance of the CAB advice is that you have a statutory right to cancel a distance order within 14 days of receipt of the goods.  (This is independent of any separate returns policy the seller might have and to exercise your statutory right you have to clearly inform the seller that you are cancelling the contract.  Bear this in mind in future).  You then have a further 14 days in which to retrun the goods and so long as you can provide proof of sending the goods back you are entitled to a refund even if the return "falls off the back of the lorry".

devnull10

Okell said:

devnull10 said:

... I've tried contacting Evri to get the weight of the parcel, which is just !!!!!! in the wind - I've had 5 different responses ranging from we don't have it, to it weighed 1 gram, to it weighed exactly 5000 grams. 😡 It's impossible to speak to a human either online or via telephone, and the responses in getting to my case with them are absolutely useless. As I didn't arrange the return, I have very little options it seems. I've asked the company to review CCTV but they've refused. I suspect an employee has received it and only scanned one item (either accidentally ordered on purpose) and they're refusing to help any further.

I've also contacted citizens advice who just reiterated some templated response about notifying a company of intent to return goods within 14 days, and couldn't help any further.

I know I could go to small claims, but I literally can't prove I sent three items back, unless they get the weight from Evri, which they're refusing to do. So I presume I'd have no chance of winning.

Any suggestions???

Do you have their 5 different responses in writing?  (ie email, text, whatsapp etc).

I would suggest that you point out to the retailer that if you take them to court (which you certainly will if they don't refund you £950), that a judge might not look too kindly on their self contradictory responses to you that (1) we don't know what weight it was; (2) it weighed 1g; (3) it weighed 5kg.

Suggest to them that in the light of their nonsensical responses that a judge would probably be more likely to believe you than to believe them.

Apart from a court claim you could go back to your credit card issuer and tell them you are making a s75 claim and not a chargeback claim.  As with the retailer point out the contradictory nature of their responses and ask who a judge might be more likely to believe.  You with a consistent narrative or the seller with an inconsitent narrative?

Regarding the CAB advice and their template response, have you actually tried that with the seller?

I suspect the substance of the CAB advice is that you have a statutory right to cancel a distance order within 14 days of receipt of the goods.  (This is independent of any separate returns policy the seller might have and to exercise your statutory right you have to clearly inform the seller that you are cancelling the contract.  Bear this in mind in future).  You then have a further 14 days in which to retrun the goods and so long as you can provide proof of sending the goods back you are entitled to a refund even if the return "falls off the back of the lorry".

So the responses around the weight were from me contacting Evri directly, not via the retailer, because the retailer refused to contact Evri to get the weight when I asked them to. I thought it was therefore worth a stab at me trying, because if I managed to get the weight then it would show clearly that it was more than one single coats worth of weight in the package. The problem with my contacting Evri is that 1) they're absolutely !!!!!! and 2) as I didn't pay for or arrange the postage (the retailer did), they're pretty reluctant to speak to me about it. They said the retailer needs to contact them, but the retailer is just saying "we're not changing our decision, so we won't do anything else". 

If I went to small claims, could I get the court to force Evri to disclose the weight?

devnull10

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The court works on the balance of probabilities, and with neither party having definitive proof of their position, that's all that can happen.

A letter before action will cost you the price of a stamp, and it just might generate a different response.  If it doesn't, you'll need to decide whether to spend the court fee in the hope that you win, or write off the £950.  Personally, I'd take my chance in court, given the sum at stake.

Yeah, I think it was more a case of whether unless I had definite proof, I'd no chance of winning. I don't want to waste another £150 on going to court if it's completely worthless, especially after losing so much already.

I'm absolutely gutted, luckily I can cover the cost temporarily to get the charge off my credit card, but to have just been rinsed out of nearly £1000 by a company because they've made a mistake, and seemingly no way of me proving otherwise, is sickening. It'll mean cancelling my holiday this year if I can't get it back 😢

Aylesbury_Duck

Although court would be the right route (if a section 75 claim as suggested by Okell is unsuccessful) be aware that there is a long wait for court hearings, so even if you win, it will be many months before that money is back in your account.

To answer your earlier question, no, I don't think Evri can be summoned to provide anything.  It's up to the two parties to produce their supporting evidence and the court decides based on that.

Personally, I think a proper letter before action is likely to do the trick and get you a refund without going to court, but I'd try the S75 route first.

Okell

devnull10 said:

Okell said:

devnull10 said:

... I've tried contacting Evri to get the weight of the parcel, which is just !!!!!! in the wind - I've had 5 different responses ranging from we don't have it, to it weighed 1 gram, to it weighed exactly 5000 grams. 😡 It's impossible to speak to a human either online or via telephone, and the responses in getting to my case with them are absolutely useless. As I didn't arrange the return, I have very little options it seems. I've asked the company to review CCTV but they've refused. I suspect an employee has received it and only scanned one item (either accidentally ordered on purpose) and they're refusing to help any further.

I've also contacted citizens advice who just reiterated some templated response about notifying a company of intent to return goods within 14 days, and couldn't help any further.

I know I could go to small claims, but I literally can't prove I sent three items back, unless they get the weight from Evri, which they're refusing to do. So I presume I'd have no chance of winning.

Any suggestions???

Do you have their 5 different responses in writing?  (ie email, text, whatsapp etc).

I would suggest that you point out to the retailer that if you take them to court (which you certainly will if they don't refund you £950), that a judge might not look too kindly on their self contradictory responses to you that (1) we don't know what weight it was; (2) it weighed 1g; (3) it weighed 5kg.

Suggest to them that in the light of their nonsensical responses that a judge would probably be more likely to believe you than to believe them.

Apart from a court claim you could go back to your credit card issuer and tell them you are making a s75 claim and not a chargeback claim.  As with the retailer point out the contradictory nature of their responses and ask who a judge might be more likely to believe.  You with a consistent narrative or the seller with an inconsitent narrative?

Regarding the CAB advice and their template response, have you actually tried that with the seller?

I suspect the substance of the CAB advice is that you have a statutory right to cancel a distance order within 14 days of receipt of the goods.  (This is independent of any separate returns policy the seller might have and to exercise your statutory right you have to clearly inform the seller that you are cancelling the contract.  Bear this in mind in future).  You then have a further 14 days in which to retrun the goods and so long as you can provide proof of sending the goods back you are entitled to a refund even if the return "falls off the back of the lorry".

So the responses around the weight were from me contacting Evri directly, not via the retailer, because the retailer refused to contact Evri to get the weight when I asked them to. I thought it was therefore worth a stab at me trying, because if I managed to get the weight then it would show clearly that it was more than one single coats worth of weight in the package. The problem with my contacting Evri is that 1) they're absolutely !!!!!! and 2) as I didn't pay for or arrange the postage (the retailer did), they're pretty reluctant to speak to me about it. They said the retailer needs to contact them, but the retailer is just saying "we're not changing our decision, so we won't do anything else"...

Sorry - I didn't make myself clear.  

If you have the replies from Evri in writing, go back to the seller and say:  "Look, your courier is being evasive about what they collected from me.  They've told me 5 contradictory things:.....[list them].   If I take you to court with this nonsensical evidence from your own courier, who do you think a judge is more likely to believe. you or me?"

devnull10 said:

Okell said:

devnull10 said:

... I've tried contacting Evri to get the weight of the parcel, which is just !!!!!! in the wind - I've had 5 different responses ranging from we don't have it, to it weighed 1 gram, to it weighed exactly 5000 grams. 😡 It's impossible to speak to a human either online or via telephone, and the responses in getting to my case with them are absolutely useless. As I didn't arrange the return, I have very little options it seems. I've asked the company to review CCTV but they've refused. I suspect an employee has received it and only scanned one item (either accidentally ordered on purpose) and they're refusing to help any further.

I've also contacted citizens advice who just reiterated some templated response about notifying a company of intent to return goods within 14 days, and couldn't help any further.

I know I could go to small claims, but I literally can't prove I sent three items back, unless they get the weight from Evri, which they're refusing to do. So I presume I'd have no chance of winning.

Any suggestions???

Do you have their 5 different responses in writing?  (ie email, text, whatsapp etc).

I would suggest that you point out to the retailer that if you take them to court (which you certainly will if they don't refund you £950), that a judge might not look too kindly on their self contradictory responses to you that (1) we don't know what weight it was; (2) it weighed 1g; (3) it weighed 5kg.

Suggest to them that in the light of their nonsensical responses that a judge would probably be more likely to believe you than to believe them.

Apart from a court claim you could go back to your credit card issuer and tell them you are making a s75 claim and not a chargeback claim.  As with the retailer point out the contradictory nature of their responses and ask who a judge might be more likely to believe.  You with a consistent narrative or the seller with an inconsitent narrative?

Regarding the CAB advice and their template response, have you actually tried that with the seller?

I suspect the substance of the CAB advice is that you have a statutory right to cancel a distance order within 14 days of receipt of the goods.  (This is independent of any separate returns policy the seller might have and to exercise your statutory right you have to clearly inform the seller that you are cancelling the contract.  Bear this in mind in future).  You then have a further 14 days in which to retrun the goods and so long as you can provide proof of sending the goods back you are entitled to a refund even if the return "falls off the back of the lorry".

... If I went to small claims, could I get the court to force Evri to disclose the weight?

No, but if you took the seller to court you could use in evidence the contradictory replies of their own courier, who was acting as the seller's agent.

sheramber

Who is the company ?

Okell

devnull10 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

The court works on the balance of probabilities, and with neither party having definitive proof of their position, that's all that can happen.

A letter before action will cost you the price of a stamp, and it just might generate a different response.  If it doesn't, you'll need to decide whether to spend the court fee in the hope that you win, or write off the £950.  Personally, I'd take my chance in court, given the sum at stake.

Yeah, I think it was more a case of whether unless I had definite proof, I'd no chance of winning. I don't want to waste another £150 on going to court if it's completely worthless, especially after losing so much already...

What do you mean by "definite proof"?

You say you sent the items back.  The seller says you didn't.  If you issue a court claim against the seller it becomes a simple question of who the court thinks is more likely to be telling the truth - you or the seller.  All you need to win would be for the court to decide that you are 51% more likely to be telling the truth than the seller. 

How do you think the seller will be able to produce "definite proof" that you never sent the items back?

(NB - The fact that the return was organised and paid for by the seller actually works in your favour.  The returned goods were no longer your responsibility from the time Evri collected them.  If you sent the goods back with Evri but they didn't reach the seller, that's the seller's problem, not yours.  The seller selected Evri, not you.)

Where do you get £150 from?  The fee for issuing a claim for £950 would be £70 I think?  Make a court claim for money: Court fees - GOV.UK