Gas flue in catio

cathymaker

WIAWSNB said:

Plume kits are designed as an easy and unobtrusive way to take the flue exhaust - which can appear steamy - away from where it can cause a visual nuisance. It's a much smaller pipe, and only extends the central - exhaust - part of the flue, the sticky-out nozzle.

They are designed to replace the existing nozzle, and simply clip in. The problem can be that the existing flue doesn't have the type of terminal that'll accept it - some do, some don't. So, if it doesn't, then the whole flue section may need changing first - an expensive pain.

In which case, I don't know if it's an option to continue with the 'full' flue, removing that end terminal, adding an elbow, a short upright, and a terminal - the existing flue will likely have this suitability, as these flues sections are designed to slot together, and then the flue terminal fitted on the end.
Yes, it's more unsightly to have a whole white flue instead of the smaller plume pipe, but clearly the aesthetics of that side of your property has already been compromised. Kidding! 
If you don't need to replace the whole existing flue, that should be a lot cheaper. 
Possibly it'll require a couple of 45o elbows to dogleg past the gutter, but no big deal.

Later, when you instead get a dawg, you can have the ugly flue extension removed...

Gas engineer no 2 has been.  He's taken measurements and photos and will be discussing with Baxi whether they have a plume kit to fit existing flue that will take it beyond the guttering. If not, plume kit AND new flue required. He can't see the job itself being a problem (!) if Baxi give him approval and he also couldn't see why replacing with mesh, if they don't, was a problem to them so he's going to ask about that too. So now I'm waiting on how he gets on with Baxi. 

cathymaker

WIAWSNB said:

cathymaker said:

Brackenfield said:

We have the same issue of a flue in our recently built catio.  My husband said we needed an open air catio due to this and some kind or upward vent (the flume you take about maybe?) 

We have a wooden framework including a baton on the wall of the house and have used mesh as a ceiling.  It's strong garden mesh from Knowlenets (they took about 15 days to deliver but we can't pull it apart so figure the 3 cats can't either!) and it's stapled onto the wooden frame and baton.  The mesh has only been up since Sunday so hopefully it's secure and they won't escape!!  An option perhaps?   

Thank you. I did suggest mesh to replace the polycarb to the engineer but he said the fumes would rot it and Baxi also said that mesh wasn't a solution. BUT please bear in mind the man at Baxi I spoke to had no idea what a catio is and just quoted me the carport dimensions for distance of roof - mesh or otherwise - to flue required. I didn't pursue a plume conversation with him while it seemed a non starter, according to engineer.  If a flume is possible and avoids the mesh, I cant see why it would be a problem. Have you got a photo I could see please? Maybe a different engineer would be willing to take on the job. Obviously it will let in rain but maybe that's the compromise I'd have to make. 

Hmm, I don't think these folk understand the situation. But tbf to the Baxi guy, the two construction types are very similar, and have 'solid' roofs.
The flue exhaust is slightly acidic, and the materials at direct risk from this are some metals, and masonry. The mesh will likely be polypropylene or similar, and I cannot see it being bothered at all. So, replacing the polycarb with mesh as in Bracken's fine example would almost certainly sort the 'exhaust' issue, if you wished to go that way.
However, my main concern with your current setup is the timber joist in front of the nozzle. 
There are ways around this, whilst keeping your current roof. I suggest first asking another GS to visit and discuss solutions - Ie, a plume kit. Make it clear that you will arrange to have that sheet removed - time to sweet-talk your niece - and will replace it afterwards only with a sizeable clearance slot cut it in to avoid the pipe. See if they'll agree to plume this.
Yes, a wee bit of rain will get through there, but I guess that ain't a big deal?
Your cheeky catio installer - if your GS had slapped a 'Danger -  do not use' warning on your boiler due to that joist, you'd have been able to force them to reposition it, or your money back. Hey-ho :-)
Exact model of Baxi?

I spoke to Baxi again today and ended up speaking to the person I spoke to first time I called. I don't know if he, like me, was just losing the will to live on the subject, but today he's said I can go with a mesh roof as long as nothing at all obstructing circulation. He said he'd gone by car port regs previously and that calls for 2 open sides and assumes a polycarb roof, so 3 mesh sides and a mesh roof ok.  Maybe he's since seen a catio 🤔

WIAWSNB

Thanks for the updates.

So, having that timber joist in front of the exhaust nozzle wasn't an issue? 

Are you ok with a mesh roof? If so, clearly the simplest and cheapest solution. 

Most of the roof could presumably remain poly - I think I'd only replace the panel in line with the flue. 

cathymaker

WIAWSNB said:

Thanks for the updates.

So, having that timber joist in front of the exhaust nozzle wasn't an issue? 

Are you ok with a mesh roof? If so, clearly the simplest and cheapest solution. 

Most of the roof could presumably remain poly - I think I'd only replace the panel in line with the flue. 

I'll need to remove that joist to keep the circulation flowing. Polycarb obviously was the ideal choice but Baxi man was only happy with the idea of replacing it all with mesh.  Though I personally think it would be ok keeping some of it but better do as he says.  The plume kit idea, which would enable me to keep the roof as it is, required a new flue as well and my quote was £450. The catio didn't cost too much more so that's a non-starter.

WIAWSNB

cathymaker said:

WIAWSNB said:

Thanks for the updates.

So, having that timber joist in front of the exhaust nozzle wasn't an issue? 

Are you ok with a mesh roof? If so, clearly the simplest and cheapest solution. 

Most of the roof could presumably remain poly - I think I'd only replace the panel in line with the flue. 

I'll need to remove that joist to keep the circulation flowing. Polycarb obviously was the ideal choice but Baxi man was only happy with the idea of replacing it all with mesh.  Though I personally think it would be ok keeping some of it but better do as he says.  The plume kit idea, which would enable me to keep the roof as it is, required a new flue as well and my quote was £450. The catio didn't cost too much more so that's a non-starter.

Fair enough. 

I don't suppose you mentioned the possibility of continuing with a 'full' flue as opposed to a 'plume' type? Ie removing the end terminal, which should - I think - leave you with a standard flue end connection, ready to take additional flue sections. So, for example, clip on a 90o elbow to direct it upwards, a short - 1to2 foot - length of pipe, and a new 'rain' terminal on top. Or, a pair of 45o elbows to dogleg past the gutter. 

You'd keep the original flue length, so this should be a lot cheaper, if it's doable. And you can keep your beautiful poly roof too. 

FreeBear

cathymaker said: The plume kit idea, which would enable me to keep the roof as it is, required a new flue as well and my quote was £450.

Did you ask how much a vertical flue would cost ?

OK. it would leave a hole in the wall that would need patching inside & out. But it would avoid any need for a plume kit and remove any chance of failing future gas safety assessments.

jefaz07

WIAWSNB said:

cathymaker said:

WIAWSNB said:

Thanks for the updates.

So, having that timber joist in front of the exhaust nozzle wasn't an issue? 

Are you ok with a mesh roof? If so, clearly the simplest and cheapest solution. 

Most of the roof could presumably remain poly - I think I'd only replace the panel in line with the flue. 

I'll need to remove that joist to keep the circulation flowing. Polycarb obviously was the ideal choice but Baxi man was only happy with the idea of replacing it all with mesh.  Though I personally think it would be ok keeping some of it but better do as he says.  The plume kit idea, which would enable me to keep the roof as it is, required a new flue as well and my quote was £450. The catio didn't cost too much more so that's a non-starter.

Fair enough. 

I don't suppose you mentioned the possibility of continuing with a 'full' flue as opposed to a 'plume' type? Ie removing the end terminal, which should - I think - leave you with a standard flue end connection, ready to take additional flue sections. So, for example, clip on a 90o elbow to direct it upwards, a short - 1to2 foot - length of pipe, and a new 'rain' terminal on top. Or, a pair of 45o elbows to dogleg past the gutter. 

You'd keep the original flue length, so this should be a lot cheaper, if it's doable. And you can keep your beautiful poly roof too. 

Baxi don’t allow the flue outside or any white on show. Taking the end terminal off will not allow any other flue accessories to be fitted either.  You’d have to go back to the elbow and start from there. So unfortunately this isn’t an option. 

WIAWSNB

jefaz07 said:

WIAWSNB said:

cathymaker said:

WIAWSNB said:

Thanks for the updates.

So, having that timber joist in front of the exhaust nozzle wasn't an issue? 

Are you ok with a mesh roof? If so, clearly the simplest and cheapest solution. 

Most of the roof could presumably remain poly - I think I'd only replace the panel in line with the flue. 

I'll need to remove that joist to keep the circulation flowing. Polycarb obviously was the ideal choice but Baxi man was only happy with the idea of replacing it all with mesh.  Though I personally think it would be ok keeping some of it but better do as he says.  The plume kit idea, which would enable me to keep the roof as it is, required a new flue as well and my quote was £450. The catio didn't cost too much more so that's a non-starter.

Fair enough. 

I don't suppose you mentioned the possibility of continuing with a 'full' flue as opposed to a 'plume' type? Ie removing the end terminal, which should - I think - leave you with a standard flue end connection, ready to take additional flue sections. So, for example, clip on a 90o elbow to direct it upwards, a short - 1to2 foot - length of pipe, and a new 'rain' terminal on top. Or, a pair of 45o elbows to dogleg past the gutter. 

You'd keep the original flue length, so this should be a lot cheaper, if it's doable. And you can keep your beautiful poly roof too. 

Baxi don’t allow the flue outside or any white on show. Taking the end terminal off will not allow any other flue accessories to be fitted either.  You’d have to go back to the elbow and start from there. So unfortunately this isn’t an option. 

Cheers, Jefaz.
Best sticking with her current plan, then.

cathymaker

WIAWSNB said:

cathymaker said:

WIAWSNB said:

Thanks for the updates.

So, having that timber joist in front of the exhaust nozzle wasn't an issue? 

Are you ok with a mesh roof? If so, clearly the simplest and cheapest solution. 

Most of the roof could presumably remain poly - I think I'd only replace the panel in line with the flue. 

I'll need to remove that joist to keep the circulation flowing. Polycarb obviously was the ideal choice but Baxi man was only happy with the idea of replacing it all with mesh.  Though I personally think it would be ok keeping some of it but better do as he says.  The plume kit idea, which would enable me to keep the roof as it is, required a new flue as well and my quote was £450. The catio didn't cost too much more so that's a non-starter.

Fair enough. 

I don't suppose you mentioned the possibility of continuing with a 'full' flue as opposed to a 'plume' type? Ie removing the end terminal, which should - I think - leave you with a standard flue end connection, ready to take additional flue sections. So, for example, clip on a 90o elbow to direct it upwards, a short - 1to2 foot - length of pipe, and a new 'rain' terminal on top. Or, a pair of 45o elbows to dogleg past the gutter. 

You'd keep the original flue length, so this should be a lot cheaper, if it's doable. And you can keep your beautiful poly roof too. 

I showed that suggestion to gas engineer no 2 and he said unlikely Baxi would allow it but he'd ask. All I got eventually was a quote. No mention of the other options we'd discussed, which included mesh roof too.  I messaged GE 2 asking if he'd mentioned them to Baxi and he said Baxi only approved the one option, ie as per the quote. That's when I rang Baxi again myself and asked about mesh. I quit while I was ahead when he agreed to that if I'm honest. 

cathymaker

FreeBear said:

cathymaker said: The plume kit idea, which would enable me to keep the roof as it is, required a new flue as well and my quote was £450.

Did you ask how much a vertical flue would cost ?

OK. it would leave a hole in the wall that would need patching inside & out. But it would avoid any need for a plume kit and remove any chance of failing future gas safety assessments.

No I didn't. I left it all in hands of second gas engineer to liaise with Baxi over options.