Help with defence against DCB

defender001

Hello all! I wish I had found this earlier... sounds like I did everything wrong so far and now have a claim form from DCB Legal. But I have read the forum and won't panic. I now filed the AOS and have time.

I'm posting because I believe my defence should be slightly different than the template (although I intend to use most of it). I have a freehold property in private land for which I pay an estate rent charge. The estate management company explains the charge I pay includes maintaining roads, etc, and even (blimey!) paying a company to monitor parking in public areas which, in this case, is immediately in front of my property in a purely residential area (although in the private part of the land).

I'm firstly wondering if there's any basis to dismiss the charge right here? I already pay to maintain the roads. I even pay for the parking company to come and ensure vehicles parked in common areas are registered. So there can't have been any loss. "Registering" the car must be done in an app every time we park there and there's 1h free (once registered).

What happened is that my wife moved _my_ car to a parking bay in order to have _her_ car serviced in our driveway (for which I have the right to park as that's my land). She was supposed to have registered my car, but the app used for residents (which is different than the one in the poster) had been changed only 6 days before on grounds that it often had problems. The new app, which she couldn't use in this occasion, was also problematic and since replaced again. I have the letters from the estate management company confirming these points. This is what I believe my defence should focus on.

I'm also considering removing the template section "Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR" from my defence. What do you think?

Finally, I filed an appeal (to Elite, the designated parking manager) in which I explained the app issue but they rejected it. Then, when I got the (incredibly intimidating) letters from the collector (which include words like "Can't Pay? We'll take it away! As seen on TV."), I called them to explain I didn't agree with the charge and wouldn't pay. They didn't want to listen to me and said the time to appeal had passed. I clarified I wasn't appealing, just telling them I don't owe anything and would they proceed with this I will charge them for my time. I recorded this call and told them on the phone I was recording (to which they said they wouldn't authorise me to use it in court, but I believe this is admissible).

I'm now thinking that I should also counterclaim. Not only I feel incredibly harassed by the continued threatening letters after I said I didn't owe them anything, I read in the Parking Prankster that if they got my data without the right to claim then this is a breach of privacy. Do you think I should push for that too at this time? Or later?

Thanks for keeping up this amazing forum!

Coupon-mad

 I have a freehold property in private land for which I pay an estate rent charge. The estate management company explains the charge I pay includes maintaining roads, etc, and even (blimey!) paying a company to monitor parking in public areas.

No they don't. Parking firms aren't paid. They operate 'free' like a protection racket.

What happened is that my wife moved _my_ car to a parking bay in order to have _her_ car serviced in our driveway (for which I have the right to park as that's my land). She was supposed to have registered my car, but the app used for residents (which is different than the one in the poster) had been changed only 6 days before on grounds that it often had problems. The new app, which she couldn't use in this occasion, was also problematic and since replaced again. I have the letters from the estate management company confirming these points. This is what I believe my defence should focus on

That - and the main fact it's your land and not part of the common areas.

Why are you even accepting this regime?

Opt out! As the freeholder, you HAVE NOT given permission for your land to be run as if it is a car park. Why are you going along with it?

I'm also considering removing the template section "Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR" from my defence. What do you think?

Why not re-write it? YOU are the landowner.

defender001

 I have a freehold property in private land for which I pay an estate rent charge. The estate management company explains the charge I pay includes maintaining roads, etc, and even (blimey!) paying a company to monitor parking in public areas.

No they don't. Parking firms aren't paid. They operate 'free' like a protection racket.

The wording in the estate management documentation explaining my estate rent charge reads:

Management and monitoring of the correct use of parking areas.

Further, their budget documentation includes a provision for "Car Park Services" which claims to cover fixed and variable costs for signage and other infrastructure for parking management and monitoring. Lastly, their schedule lists the fixed costs, the variable costs, and revenue from car parking (which is unclear whether it relates to parking charges or parking fees, but I'd guess the latter). I can ask for clarification.

I think this is relevant because if I'm already paying for it, then they can't relate the charges to maintenance of the grounds. If I understand correctly, that's what most PCNs claim to be for.

Also, in case I didn't make it clear, the residents are supposed to use a different app than the one in the posters. And that's the app that wasn't working.

I think this is relevant and how my defence should be presented, but I look forward to more advice.

What happened is that my wife moved _my_ car to a parking bay in order to have _her_ car serviced in our driveway (for which I have the right to park as that's my land). She was supposed to have registered my car, but the app used for residents (which is different than the one in the poster) had been changed only 6 days before on grounds that it often had problems. The new app, which she couldn't use in this occasion, was also problematic and since replaced again. I have the letters from the estate management company confirming these points. This is what I believe my defence should focus on

That - and the main fact it's your land and not part of the common areas.

To be clear: I am not. I have a driveway in which I'm entitled to park. The road immediately in front of my property is not mine, it's private land. That private land includes the pavement which is where the marked bays are for parking and where the posters allegedly relate to. That's why I have a freehold and still pay a rent charge. This is slightly different than ground rent which applies to leasehold properties. See the guidance on rentcharges from the gov.uk website.

Does that change your view on this?

Gr1pr

Seems to me that you need help or advice from a contract law specialist legal eagle,  not volunteer lay persons on a parking forum, due to the nature of the content in your posts above  ( or from specialised members like bargepole,  johnersh or troublemaker22 , or contestor legal etc , or possibly other victims of similar cases on here)

Although it's a slightly different scenario, your case reminds me of a long drawn out one from a few years ago regarding estate management issues,  spaces monitoring etc, linked below  ( a lot of good information in the posts in the thread  )

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6081668/court-form-received-help-requested/p1

But good luck and I hope that you win out and succeed in your not by any means normal case

Coupon-mad

I can ask for clarification.

I think you should.

It is exceedingly rare that a parking firm is paid like a 'service contract' and it will really surprise me if there's anything more than something really nominal, such as a cost per sign (and they're as cheap as chips and not an annual cost).

Only in the UK would residents tolerate the scam of an unneeded 'permit/app' permission to live & park at your own home then being sued by a poxxy PPC for a jumped up reason! It is absurd.

I've no idea why anyone (freeholders or leaseholders) would agree to a parking firm marauding around your cars and own home area! That's a big fat "no" from me and I'd never buy a property with a parking firm infesting the estate roads. So I don't get it. Rattle cages. Get angry. Kick them out is the best advice I can give.

Maybe @h2g2 understands the arrangement you describe (that poster is currently suing their RTM for introducing a parking firm that is ruining the estate).

defender001

Thanks again for all the help so far. @h2g2, if you have anything to add, please do!

In the meantime, I noticed that paragraph 3 of the Template refers to a thread by @shahib_02, but I can't find the thread. Can anyone share the link? My case is against DCB Legal, so I want to use as much of the "material that works" as possible.

Thanks!

Gr1pr

Click on their name, to see their profile,  then look at the threads  ( topics   ) they started, one of them from around xmas is the thread to read ( but bear in mind that their POC says Issued,  but since last month they changed it to the word Contravention,  so paragraph 3 is no longer the same 

You will probably have to use the defence template written in the announcements defence template thread,  top of the forum 

defender001

Maybe my account is too Newbie, but I can't see the threads from their profile. And, yes, I'm using that template. I'll post some of my paragraphs here shortly!

defender001

I'm still having problems with the template section "Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR". While I can't tell for sure, I do believe Elite Parking has been authorised to operate in the area by the landowner... should I just remove this section?

One part of this which I would like to keep is where they used the DVLA to get my details. I can confirm that because I filed a GDPR against them and they shared that information. If they aren't allowed to issue me this charge, which I believe they are not, then is that an abuse of sorts?

Gr1pr

You are using ALL of the defence template,  unchanged apart from paragraphs 2 & 3

Wharf you do or don't believe isn't relevant,  you are defending against the POC using the template and putting them to strict proof due to the wording 

Dont overthink this topic, just follow the advice 

Coupon-mad

defender001 said:

Maybe my account is too Newbie, but I can't see the threads from their profile. 

Yes you can. Everyone can.

But why not read a more recent one from the past 5 weeks, given that we've explained that DCB Legal has changed 'issued' to 'contravention' in their POC in April. There are dozens of threads around yours right now you could copy from.

I'm still having problems with the template section "Lack of standing or landowner authority, and lack of ADR". While I can't tell for sure, I do believe Elite Parking has been authorised to operate in the area by the landowner...

should I just remove this section?

Absolutely, categorically: no.