Grace period before/after paid period

Timewarp

I got a PCN from Civil Enforcement Limited (CEL), which are BPA members.

Time of arrival: 10:36:25
Departure: 11:51:43

I paid for 1 hour, and my banking app has the transaction at 10:41

I believe there should be a "5-Minute Consideration Period" in order to read T&C's and decide whether to park. This accounts for the 10:36 - 10:41 time period.

And also there should be a 10 minute grace period, which should give me to 11:51.

Of course, it seems I was over this by a matter of up to 43 seconds.

Is this worth appealing to POPLA over? Of course, the appeal with CEL failed them stating that I was over the time paid for. Or will they throw it out for those 43 seconds?

I park there regularly so I'll check the signs next time I'm down.

Gr1pr

I doubt that you get both periods,, check the joint BP CoP 2025 for details on minimum consideration periods and grace periods, no assumptions. I doubt that the signs will be helpful,  but get pictures anyway 

Cel will be of the opinion that the 1 hour started on entry

Coupon-mad

They will ... but we need to also tell posters that the parking industry are wrong and the entire industry is flying in the face of the will of Parliament as well as case law (NCP v HMRC green button finding - search the forum).

Gr1pr

After over 12 years of hearing about "jam tomorrow " and before covid19 diplomat deepy saying it would be over by Xmas,  I only concentrate on the current or previous situations,  the speculation I leave to the others who post about it  !  Life's too short for the retired warriors,  including deepy.  I leave the rants to bmw patient dream and Protest and others

I remember a time when London Councils ran POPLA, Henry Greenslade oversaw it and the argument by the OP had legs,  but it's gone downhill over the last decade,  especially in the last 5 years 

Coupon-mad

Yes but that's not a reason to only tell a new poster what the PPC's version is. People reading that might think they have no case.

Gr1pr

After receiving PMs or warnings etc in the past about giving out extra information, too much information or about going off piste,  I am sticking to the facts and my opinion on the actual query only , the OP can always subsequently query if they have a case or not and others can offer opinions on that aspect  ( so we will have to agree to disagree on that aspect of the right to offer opinions in response to posts , or not to do so , everyone has the right to short replies only,  like one liner,   less is more,   ChirpyChicken for example !  , or not to reply or to speculate   ) they did not ask if they had a valid legal case ( so an appeal to popla will fail around the proposed challenge due to the fact that they dont allow 2 bites of the cherry,  so the difference is almost 6 minutes,  not 43 seconds  )

I played the actual ball, not the Crystal ball  !

Timewarp

Gr1pr said:

I doubt that you get both periods,, check the joint BP CoP 2025 for details on minimum consideration periods and grace periods, no assumptions. I doubt that the signs will be helpful,  but get pictures anyway 

Cel will be of the opinion that the 1 hour started on entry

Thanks. The sign says I have 10 minutes to pay and when you get a ticket it shows an expiry time.

So this expiry time isn't really an expiry time, and the time would actually start upon arrival?
 

Coupon-mad

Therefore that contract does offer you 10 minutes before the P&D contract starts.

You *should* win at POPLA stage by pointing that out.

Timewarp

Coupon-mad said:

Therefore that contract does offer you 10 minutes before the P&D contract starts.

You *should* win at POPLA stage by pointing that out.

So just to clarify my timeline..

- I arrived
- 5 mins later I paid for 1hr
- I parked for a further 1hr 10 minutes and up to 43 seconds (unknown as banking app doesn't show seconds)

Of course I was slightly over the 10 minutes of the post-parking grace period. 

Do you still think they'd rule in my favour?

Coupon-mad

 

Only if you point out the sign and clarify that this site offers a specifically stated ten minutes consideration period.

Timewarp

Coupon-mad said:

Only if you point out the sign and clarify that this site offers a specifically stated ten minutes consideration period.

Even though the 11 mins was after the paid period (I'll call it 11 even though it's between 10:00 and 10:43)?

I know with BPA you are meant to have a 10 min grace period after your paid time, as well now with the 10 mins before as displayed on the sign. So if I overstayed by 11 mins (as this time began when I paid) instead of 10 as per BPA guidelines, not the sign, how would POPLA likely rule?

I appreciate your help, I'm just checking we're singing from the same hymn sheet before I make the call.