CPZ being introduced to my street - question about visitors & dropkerbs

user1977

Cannonf said:

Okell said:

Ask your local councillors!

You know who they are and you have their contact details.

What makes you think anybody here will know any more than they will?

however surely I'm not the first person to have this situation of being forced into a cpz, that has limited parking bays that could be pre occupied by neighbours when visitors turn up & yet while I have a dropkerb the only info about parking on these is if MY car is registered - nothing about visitors
 - so there might be (however slim) someone who has had the same  or similar experience that could offer some advice and THAT is why I thought there maybe might be someone here who'll know 

Hope that clears that comment up

But every CPZ has its own rules, so there's little point in me telling you that in mine, visitors use pay-and-display spaces (and everyone parks where they like at evenings and weekends), and nobody is allowed to park across dropped kerbs. You'll need to find out the rules for your area, whenever they are consulted on / published.

Okell

user1977 said:

Cannonf said:

Okell said:

Ask your local councillors!

You know who they are and you have their contact details.

What makes you think anybody here will know any more than they will?

however surely I'm not the first person to have this situation of being forced into a cpz, that has limited parking bays that could be pre occupied by neighbours when visitors turn up & yet while I have a dropkerb the only info about parking on these is if MY car is registered - nothing about visitors
 - so there might be (however slim) someone who has had the same  or similar experience that could offer some advice and THAT is why I thought there maybe might be someone here who'll know 

Hope that clears that comment up

But every CPZ has its own rules, so there's little point in me telling you that in mine, visitors use pay-and-display spaces (and everyone parks where they like at evenings and weekends), and nobody is allowed to park across dropped kerbs. You'll need to find out the rules for your area, whenever they are consulted on / published.

This ^         

GrumpyDil

Cannonf said:

Okell said:

Ask your local councillors!

You know who they are and you have their contact details.

What makes you think anybody here will know any more than they will?

I will probably will, once I'm not on night shift & usually asleep during 'normal office hours', although considering how much 'fun' I had last time I tried calling an official (the taxman) I don't have much confidence it'll be quick phone call

Councillors often have 'real' jobs in addition to their councillor role so why don't you initiate the conversation by email as a starter as that might help to progress this in the meantime.

Okell

Cannonf said:

Okell said:

Ask your local councillors!

You know who they are and you have their contact details.

What makes you think anybody here will know any more than they will?

I will probably will, once I'm not on night shift & usually asleep during 'normal office hours', although considering how much 'fun' I had last time I tried calling an official (the taxman) I don't have much confidence it'll be quick phone call...

Yes but there is a significant difference between trying to contact an unelected civil servant who probably doesn't want to speak to you and contacting your own elected councillor.

Councillors are elected to represent YOU.  In my experience they would prefer to be helpful to you in the hope you will vote for them next time.

Try all three of the councillors you have identified that represent your ward

Cannonf

user1977 said:

Cannonf said:

Okell said:

Ask your local councillors!

You know who they are and you have their contact details.

What makes you think anybody here will know any more than they will?

however surely I'm not the first person to have this situation of being forced into a cpz, that has limited parking bays that could be pre occupied by neighbours when visitors turn up & yet while I have a dropkerb the only info about parking on these is if MY car is registered - nothing about visitors
 - so there might be (however slim) someone who has had the same  or similar experience that could offer some advice and THAT is why I thought there maybe might be someone here who'll know 

Hope that clears that comment up

But every CPZ has its own rules, so there's little point in me telling you that in mine, visitors use pay-and-display spaces (and everyone parks where they like at evenings and weekends), and nobody is allowed to park across dropped kerbs. You'll need to find out the rules for your area, whenever they are consulted on / published.

Well thought I'd post an update - heard nothing from councillors knot even an automated 'thank you') but finally heard from the parking permit office.

It seems in our area it's the same.... 
It's been confirmed that NO visitors are allowed to park on dropped kerbs during operation times & they MUST use the CPZ bays, which will cause problems as mentioned before

This week during the cpz hours I've been taking photos of the 2 bays opposite our house (2 of the 3 proposed bays that are suppose to cover the 20 houses up our end of the road) & 3 of the 5 days there's been cars parked in both from about 9am to 1pm - admittingly rest of the time only one of the bays has had a car parked there all day (the 3rd bay can't see from house)

I have replied to ask what happens if I prepurchase a visitor pass (which probably has to be done since mother can't do 'technology' & does not give bank details over phone so I'll have to do it all, & from work on days we have the 2 visitors turn up) & visitors cannot park in any cpz bays if already occupied & I'm still waiting for a reply, but I do know the site state ALL permits are non-refundable...
So that means councils could get money from residences for unused visitor permits (nice con & they say they're not doing cpz for money)

The email has also said that if I do have visitors & I have a dropped kerb waiver, then we MUST swap the cars around.
Imho I think this is defeating the whole excuse the council has said as to WHY they're doing all this CPZ in the first place

(They claim this is to reduce pollution caused by car co2 emissions & congestion)

Surely a car pulling up, sitting in middle of road waiting until I start my car up (if I'm home) & pull out to allow them to pull in, while all the time I'll be blocking the road (with engine running of course) before pulling up onto my drop kerb, then repeating all this when visitors leave - would produce MORE co2 than allowing visitors to simply pull up & park on drop kerb in the first place (like they do now) & turn their engine off once parked

On top of this, why do 'residential permits' cover 2 cars, yet 'dropkerb waivers' is only for 1 car

Somehow I think these so called 'experts' are idiots

HillStreetBlues

Cannonf said:

user1977 said:

Cannonf said:

Okell said:

Ask your local councillors!

You know who they are and you have their contact details.

What makes you think anybody here will know any more than they will?

however surely I'm not the first person to have this situation of being forced into a cpz, that has limited parking bays that could be pre occupied by neighbours when visitors turn up & yet while I have a dropkerb the only info about parking on these is if MY car is registered - nothing about visitors
 - so there might be (however slim) someone who has had the same  or similar experience that could offer some advice and THAT is why I thought there maybe might be someone here who'll know 

Hope that clears that comment up

But every CPZ has its own rules, so there's little point in me telling you that in mine, visitors use pay-and-display spaces (and everyone parks where they like at evenings and weekends), and nobody is allowed to park across dropped kerbs. You'll need to find out the rules for your area, whenever they are consulted on / published.

Well thought I'd post an update - heard nothing from councillors knot even an automated 'thank you') but finally heard from the parking permit office.

It seems in our area it's the same.... 
It's been confirmed that NO visitors are allowed to park on dropped kerbs during operation times & they MUST use the CPZ bays, which will cause problems as mentioned before

This week during the cpz hours I've been taking photos of the 2 bays opposite our house (2 of the 3 proposed bays that are suppose to cover the 20 houses up our end of the road) & 3 of the 5 days there's been cars parked in both from about 9am to 1pm - admittingly rest of the time only one of the bays has had a car parked there all day (the 3rd bay can't see from house)

I have replied to ask what happens if I prepurchase a visitor pass (which probably has to be done since mother can't do 'technology' & does not give bank details over phone so I'll have to do it all, & from work on days we have the 2 visitors turn up) & visitors cannot park in any cpz bays if already occupied & I'm still waiting for a reply, but I do know the site state ALL permits are non-refundable...
So that means councils could get money from residences for unused visitor permits (nice con & they say they're not doing cpz for money)

The email has also said that if I do have visitors & I have a dropped kerb waiver, then we MUST swap the cars around.
Imho I think this is defeating the whole excuse the council has said as to WHY they're doing all this CPZ in the first place

(They claim this is to reduce pollution caused by car co2 emissions & congestion)

Surely a car pulling up, sitting in middle of road waiting until I start my car up (if I'm home) & pull out to allow them to pull in, while all the time I'll be blocking the road (with engine running of course) before pulling up onto my drop kerb, then repeating all this when visitors leave - would produce MORE co2 than allowing visitors to simply pull up & park on drop kerb in the first place (like they do now) & turn their engine off once parked

On top of this, why do 'residential permits' cover 2 cars, yet 'dropkerb waivers' is only for 1 car

Somehow I think these so called 'experts' are idiots

Does your street suffer from non-resident parking?

Cannonf

HillStreetBlues said:

Cannonf said:

user1977 said:

Cannonf said:

Okell said:

Ask your local councillors!

You know who they are and you have their contact details.

What makes you think anybody here will know any more than they will?

however surely I'm not the first person to have this situation of being forced into a cpz, that has limited parking bays that could be pre occupied by neighbours when visitors turn up & yet while I have a dropkerb the only info about parking on these is if MY car is registered - nothing about visitors
 - so there might be (however slim) someone who has had the same  or similar experience that could offer some advice and THAT is why I thought there maybe might be someone here who'll know 

Hope that clears that comment up

But every CPZ has its own rules, so there's little point in me telling you that in mine, visitors use pay-and-display spaces (and everyone parks where they like at evenings and weekends), and nobody is allowed to park across dropped kerbs. You'll need to find out the rules for your area, whenever they are consulted on / published.

Well thought I'd post an update - heard nothing from councillors knot even an automated 'thank you') but finally heard from the parking permit office.

It seems in our area it's the same.... 
It's been confirmed that NO visitors are allowed to park on dropped kerbs during operation times & they MUST use the CPZ bays, which will cause problems as mentioned before

This week during the cpz hours I've been taking photos of the 2 bays opposite our house (2 of the 3 proposed bays that are suppose to cover the 20 houses up our end of the road) & 3 of the 5 days there's been cars parked in both from about 9am to 1pm - admittingly rest of the time only one of the bays has had a car parked there all day (the 3rd bay can't see from house)

I have replied to ask what happens if I prepurchase a visitor pass (which probably has to be done since mother can't do 'technology' & does not give bank details over phone so I'll have to do it all, & from work on days we have the 2 visitors turn up) & visitors cannot park in any cpz bays if already occupied & I'm still waiting for a reply, but I do know the site state ALL permits are non-refundable...
So that means councils could get money from residences for unused visitor permits (nice con & they say they're not doing cpz for money)

The email has also said that if I do have visitors & I have a dropped kerb waiver, then we MUST swap the cars around.
Imho I think this is defeating the whole excuse the council has said as to WHY they're doing all this CPZ in the first place

(They claim this is to reduce pollution caused by car co2 emissions & congestion)

Surely a car pulling up, sitting in middle of road waiting until I start my car up (if I'm home) & pull out to allow them to pull in, while all the time I'll be blocking the road (with engine running of course) before pulling up onto my drop kerb, then repeating all this when visitors leave - would produce MORE co2 than allowing visitors to simply pull up & park on drop kerb in the first place (like they do now) & turn their engine off once parked

On top of this, why do 'residential permits' cover 2 cars, yet 'dropkerb waivers' is only for 1 car

Somehow I think these so called 'experts' are idiots

Does your street suffer from non-resident parking?

Not usually, most cars that park (up our end at least) belong to neighbours with 2 (or more) cars/vans...I have only 1 & so does 4 other neighbours.

Those with 2 cars usually park one off-road & the other on their drop kerb while 2 houses opposite me, who have more than 2 cars, park their extra cars outside 2 OTHER houses which don't have dropkerbs outside (they in fact have a shared single car width driveway between them - these neighbours afaik have 1 car apiece) - it's these houses where (2) cpz bays are being put & are 'available for visitors' - but will still require visitor permits

This pic from security camera shows what I mean
The white car with black roof belongs to house behind tree, the smaller one by bush belongs to the house next door which has white car on front - these are 2 of the proposed cpz bays.

You can see a car down the side of house which belongs to the non-bush neighbour, while a silver car parks (at an angle) outside the house with the bush, with just enough room for the black car to reverse out

My dropkerb is a 'double' shared with next door neighbour, who also only has 1 car

You'll also see the time stamp on pic, which if you look it up is a weekday @11am - during the proposed cpz times, & this scene is typical during the week (just the cars swap around)



If these bays are pre occupied by the neighbours extra cars it means no or limited spaces nearby for visitors to park (I've looked & for at least 24 houses at our end of road, there will only be 5 cpz bays available) especially since council states NO visitors can park on dropkerbs in a cpz zone

Occasionally we do get a car park up our end & see driver get out & walk 'down the road' until out of sight (they sometimes don't park in the 'bays' but across trees which are placed between dropkerbs.. there's 'just' enough space for a car to park without going over the edges of dropkerbs). You can see such a tree between my dropkerbs & neighbour to my left

I personally suspect it's usually someone visiting the [rental] office building at the bottom of road which has a (very) small carpark (holds about 10-12 cars). We're at the 'top' of the road

Apart from this building & a physiotherapy in the next street, there are no other businesses that can cause 'obstruction' with customers parking outside/nearby residents homes.

With cpz restrictions theres virtually nowhere for visitors to park now unless we start playing musical cars & residents move their car onto dropkerbs (as long as they have a dropkerbs waiver) & visitors park their car off-road.

Normally, A 'residential permit' covers TWO cars allowing both to park in any CPZ bays in designated area while a 'dropkerb waiver' covers only ONE REGISTERED car to be allowed to park on residents own dropkerb.
(If these neighbours want to be able to park ANY of their cars on dropkerbs, they need to purchase a dropkerb waiver for EACH car)

 Any visitors to cpz zone need a 'visitor permit' to be allowed to park in any cpz bay that's available, but there no such permit to allow a visitor to park on a residents dropkerb (even with permission),or even if houseowners has a dropkerbs waiver - according to council it's illegal & visitor risk a penalty fine

IMHO the cpz system is totally F... Screwed up

born_again

Was there no consultation before they put it in place?

Cannonf

born_again said:

Was there no consultation before they put it in place?

From what I remember (this is a over a year ago so details will be a bit flaky)

The plans were drawn up in May 2024 according to date of one of the downloads (the map of cpz bays)

A letter went to home owners ~June informing about cpz expansion, & that in July (I think it was near end of month) a web link would be made active for residents to comment on the plans
(I think letter also stated we could visit local library on a few certain dates as well)

I believe the web link was only active for a limited time - based on info from searching other boroughs it could of been 14-21 days.

Nothing is heard from council until end of last month stating expansion is going ahead & painting of bays/lines start this month (May), permits can't be brought early until mid-June & restrictions start in July

Further looking on B&D site & I managed to find 'result of consultation' - Apparently...

'consultation based of all properties consulted {900}'
78% non-response or support, 22% object

'consultation based on feedback received:'
80% Object 20% Support'

To me it looks as though council has taken the 'non-response' as 'support' even though I suspect residents either didn't know about the weblink time limit, are possibly oaps that Dont understand technology (I know my Mother is one - she's always asking me how to do stuff with Facebook), or residents/oap's that couldn't get to the library on the date(s) given to give their comment or ask questions

(In fact on Sunday I met a resident from another street, he was going around gathering signatures for a petition - he told me he only moved in 3 months ago so he wouldn't of got letter & was to late to respond anyway)

Btw I was one that did respond against this. I'm not fully against cpz as I understand people parking outside houses while waiting to pick kids up from school, or parking while popping to the doctors etc can be frustrating. (Fyi nearest school is 5 streets away but never had parent park in our street & doctors is even further away)
I'm just annoyed that people with dropkerbs are not treated the same as those without in a cpz

Those without can purchase a resident permit that covers ANY 2 cars (whether they can park outside the house is another thing), but dropkerbs owners  have to pay to allow only 1 REGISTERED car to park on drop kerb outside their house.
If council allowed 1 registered car & 1 other (visitor) then I wouldn't mind so much


At least 55 years we've dealt with parking with very little congestion problems (I admit there has been a few occasions - like family get-togethers, Ramadan festivals birthday parties etc) despite the increase number of car ownership over the years .. we've just managed ok

& now council have assumed because not everyone responded, we'd like to play musical cars when visitors turn up, have to pay extra to park on our own dropkerbs despite we've already paid for the privilege of getting the Dropkerbs in the first place - & having to do this for EACH car that could possibly park there, & then there's us also forcing visitors to fight for limited parking spaces where before there was ample space parking on the dropkerbs 

(Fyi I worked out from the map that for the 64 houses in my street there will be only 24ish parking bays, while in the next street over, which many have narrow front gardens so offstreet parking is almost impossible - for the 80 houses in that street there's going to be ~63 bays).
A quick calculation on just these streets means a 34% REDUCTION for visitor parking - a 1/3 of current visitor  parking for 900 residents is going to disappear when cpz comes in

Okell

... Now I KNOW if I need to park MY car on my drop kerb I need to purchase a drop kerb waiver (£15/yr) - this doesn't happen often, usually when window cleaners turn up to allow access for their ladders - but willing to pay 'just in case'

My problem is with visitors....

I can find no information on B&D website about whether visitors are allowed to park on drop kerbs in a residental cpz during operating times even if I have a drop kerb waiver or whether they are allowed IF I purchase a visitor pass...

Do you currently need to buy a waiver or permit to park on your own dropped kerb?

I'm no parking expert and only know what i've picked up from pepipoo and FTLA, but I thought parking on your own dropped kerb was an exemption anyway?

Certainly I've seen suggestions on pepipoo and FTLA that people can get tickets cancelled or not upheld at tribunal by demostrating permission to park from the dropped kerb owner.

Am I wrong?

On the off chance I'm right, I have no idea if the introduction of a CPZ makes any difference

(@Cannonf  -   you may want to try posting your question over on FTLA  -  Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on)  )