CPZ being introduced to my street - question about visitors & dropkerbs

Cannonf

Some info first - sorry for long post though

My road/area is soon to become a CPZ in Barking & Dagenham (june-ish 2025) - times of operation 8am-5:30pm

I have a drop kerb, just like the other dozen houses at my end of the street where I live with my 84yo disabled mother

Because of this there will be only 2-3 possible places for CPZ parking bays to be (2 opposite my house & 1 on the corner junction ~ 4 houses down from me) - in fact I would say down my street there will only be about 7-10 possible bays available due to all the drop kerbs we have

I have 1 car BUT many of the other houses up my end have 2-4 vehicles consisting of cars & vans - each house with a dropkerb has room for 1 car parked off street & one on their drop kerb

However I know one house has at least 3 cars & a van but afaik only 2 drivers live there meaning at least a car/van is 'always parked' outside (usually on road/pavement) during the day - though not usually on their cutout/front sometimes in the places where the bays will probably be, or in the road across the trees we have that are between dropkerbs - when cpz is active they won't be able to do that

Now I KNOW if I need to park MY car on my drop kerb I need to purchase a drop kerb waiver (£15/yr) - this doesn't happen often, usually when window cleaners turn up to allow access for their ladders - but willing to pay 'just in case'

My problem is with visitors....

I can find no information on B&D website about whether visitors are allowed to park on drop kerbs in a residental cpz during operating times even if I have a drop kerb waiver or whether they are allowed IF I purchase a visitor pass.

Since I am unable to find info on B&D website I tried various AI chat searches but the info they give is conflicting

One suggests it IS allowed for car visitors to park on dropkerb IF I purchase a visitor pass while another states it is NOT allowed even with a visitor pass & visitors MUST park in CPZ designated bays.

I can see a problem though, if other household have multiple cars that are parked outside 24/7 in the only available (3) bays (& the situation is just as bad (or even worse) in neighbouring streets since many don't have dropkerbs/off street parking but still have 2+ cars) - where can my visitors park ?

Every 6-ish weeks my mother usually have a couple of visitors turn up in 2 cars, 1 are old neighbours (70+yo with difficulty walking) & the other is a mobile hairdresser, since it's easier for neighbours to come to the house & meet hairdresser half way instead of hairdresser coming to mother then carry on to them afterwards

For one of these visitors it's not a problem, appointments are usually arranged when I am on early shift so my car is not on the front during the day so they can park offstreet but what about the other visitor ?

If they turn up & the parking bays are occupied where can they park ?

- I can't see the OAP's trying to park 2-3 streets away & walking to the house, they're be knackered by the time they get here.

Has anyone got any advice/info/experience about this type of situation

Which AI is correct ?

Can visitors park on dropkerbs or not in a residential cpz zone ? 

Will the Dropkerbs waiver cover them, or will It need a visitor permit ?

(I know blue badge are NOT valid for dropkerbs parking)

What can visitors do if all parking bays are occupied in not only my street but in neighbouring streets ? 

I hate to think of visitors getting parking tickets due to the fact that they are unable to park due to limited constantly occupied bays.

How would you feel if you drive for  ~1hr to visit someone & can't park due to no parking bays are available even though the person you're visiting has a drop kerb ?

Surely when council decide these things they should've taken this into consideration & posted advice somewhere ?

Or were they hoping no-one will know & so get a lot of fines for 'illegal parking' on cpz Dropkerbs to up their budget

Sorry for long post & any advice will be appreciated

Okell

Ask your local councillor?

Jaybee_16

https://oneboroughvoice.lbbd.gov.uk/cpz-extension-id349-area-3a/widgets/95618/faqs#question24739

What about people who have driveways with a legal dropped kerb in place?

If you have a dropped kerb & live in a CPZ and wish to park across your own dropped kerb, you will require a Dropped Kerb permit. You will be allowed to park over your dropped kerb providing you are not blocking anyone else, such as wheelchair, pram users, or other motorists.

A Residents permit is for parking in resident bays only and cannot be used to park across a dropped kerb.

You will not need a permit to park on your off-street driveway/hard standing area.

If you park over your dropped kerb without a Dropped Kerb permit you risk receiving a penalty charge notice.

You will not be permitted to park across any other dropped kerb or where the dropped kerb is shared between two or more properties.

The B&D website says you cannot park across a dropped kerb.

Mildly_Miffed

Whether permits are required or not does not affect the number of cars that can fit in the road, nor whether those cars should be parking in front of dropped kerbs.

It simply prevents people without permits (or access to visitor permits) from parking there at all.

Supply: unchanged
Demand: reduced

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/waiting-and-parking-238-to-252

Rule 243

DO NOT stop or park:
...

* where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
* in front of an entrance to a property

Cannonf

Okell said:

Ask your local councillor?

I've sent email off to the council but although I got an auto reply they got it - have had no answer ..yet - been about 10days now

I admit with what I've been finding out online it looks like we're totally screwed for visitors.
Very limited chance of getting a bay when anyone visits due to neighbours having multiple cars & no chance of them not getting a fine for parking on my cutout even if I'm willing to purchase any type of available permit

In fact the ONLY way I can see (if at all possible) is if I register EVERY possible visitors car on a dropkerb waiver.. which by my guessing would cost me £100+ (hairdresser,old neighbor,sister,neicesx3 etc) - something I am NOT willing to do

@jaybee thanks for the link/info but I already know about ME & MY parking on MY dropkerb & about visitor parking for the BAYS,but I could see nothing there about visitors & dropkerbs

You say B&D state you CANNOT park across dropkerbs but all I can see is

[Quote]

A Residents permit is for parking in resident bays only and cannot be used to park across a dropped kerb.[/quote]

There's nothing mentioned to allow visitors to park on dropped kerbs, especially due to the very limited number of available parking bays 
Could you quote what they say about visitors and dropkerbs - I'm probably blind

What will happen if I (pre)purchase a visitor permit for my Mother visitors & they turn up & all the bays are occupied, not only in my street but in the neighbouring streets ? 

I've could waste money on a permit that's not used (permits are non refundable) due to no parking spaces & as pensioners I doubt they want to risk getting a fine parking on dropkerb (£40 min) - so they could spend up to an hour driving here - find no parking bays - & not wanting a fine have to drive back another hour & having a wasted journey
- I can't see them going to Romford (~2miles away) , parking in a carpark, getting a bus back just for a visit - yeah I know that seems extreme, but every street around me are also being turned into cpz zones & they probably have the same problems - although some can't have offstreet parking as their gardens are not big enough for a car to park on

Looking at proposed plans & walking down my street @11am today I see that only TWO possible bay location (at the other end of the road 150-200 yards away) were not occupied, HOWEVER there were several cars (5 in fact) that were parked across trees between dropkerbs.
These would not be allowed when cpz is active so they would also be trying to find a parking bay, meaning there's just not enough bays for all the cars down the road when cpz is active - yet there WOULD be space if visitors could park on dropkerbs

@mildly miffed. About 'number of cars that can fit down the road', currently there's is space for cars to fit down the road, visitors included, IF they can park on dropped kerbs. Once CPZ is involved then theres virtually NO space for bays for neighbour cars AND visitors

I'm asking is there a method/system/legal way where visitors can park outside our house on a  dropcurb in a cpz without inviting a fine.

I'm willing to purchase 'visitor dropkerbs permits' IF such a thing exist but it seems B&D don't think that people with offstreet parking/dropkerbs might have visitors

Aretnap

Mildly_Miffed said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/waiting-and-parking-238-to-252

Rule 243

DO NOT stop or park:
...

* where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
* in front of an entrance to a property

As is often the case the Highway Code is not a complete statement of the law. The actual legislation which governs dropped kerbs includes several exceptions, one of which allows you to block your own driveway, or give someone else permission to block it.

(3)The second exception is where the vehicle is parked outside residential premises by or with the consent (but not consent given for reward) of the occupier of the premises.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/86

No idea how it works if the council is insisting that you need a permit to park across your own dropped kerb in a CPZ - does the permit cover any car that it is displayed in, or only a specific car identified by registration number?

Cannonf

Aretnap said

No idea how it works if the council is insisting that you need a permit to park across your own dropped kerb in a CPZ - does the permit cover any car that it is displayed in, or only a specific car identified by registration number?

I would assume it's ONLY for my car as the 'dropkerb waiver' states 

"A dropped kerb waiver allows you to park across only your own dropped kerb"

and 

"If you live in a CPZ and have a dropped kerb you require a Dropped Kerb Waiver to park across your dropped kerb."
it also requires me to give my car reg number, so I'm 90% sure the waiver is just for my car.

This is why I'm trying to find out if anyone else has have a similar situation & what they managed to do (if anything) to get around/resolve this since there's no info about visitors & dropkerbs on the website

I am hoping I do get a reply from someone with my email as my situation seems to be a massive oversight by the council in not having provision for households with dropkerbs in a cpz zone as well as households with multiple vehicles & limited bays

If this is the case I may be able to quote the above highway code & the council may add an exception to the new cpz (although I won't hold my breath)

wongataa

You cannot trust AI chat to give correct answers.  They do not know anything.  They are very clever predictive text generators.  If they have no idea of the answer they will just make up a plausible sounding one. This is just as you have found out in this matter.

Okell

Cannonf said:

Okell said:

Ask your local councillor?

I've sent email off to the council but although I got an auto reply they got it - have had no answer ..yet - been about 10days now...

My city council website gives individual mobile numbers for each councillor - doesn't yours?  

I'd telephone each of my local councillors rather than emailing the council

Okell

wongataa said:

You cannot trust AI chat to give correct answers.  They do not know anything.  They are very clever predictive text generators.  If they have no idea of the answer they will just make up a plausible sounding one. This is just as you have found out in this matter.

This ^ is the best advice on here.

In fact it's the best advice to any question involving AI... 

Cannonf

Okell said:

Cannonf said:

Okell said:

Ask your local councillor?

I've sent email off to the council but although I got an auto reply they got it - have had no answer ..yet - been about 10days now...

My city council website gives individual mobile numbers for each councillor - doesn't yours?  

I'd telephone each of my local councillors rather than emailing the council

Easier said than done.

Going to website the only 'contact us' page gives a typical 

Many services are only available on our website, if services are available by phone their numbers are on their relevant pages

The page for CPZ/parking gives a number & email - the number is a general contact number same as on the 'contact us'

Googling for B&D borough councillors contacts, takes me to a 'enter postcode to find your councillor' page which tells me my councillor covers the 'chadwell heath' ward.

Clicking this link fails with 'web page not found - may be temporary down or permanent moved' (fyi tried this link over 3 days - same thing)

 I did google another page which lists 'local councillors' for my area which when clicked lists over 50 names to scroll through with no details other than the party they belong to

Clicking each name then gives more details, like 'responsibilities' & 'wards they cover' with their contact details - but not all names have these same details, but I then eventually find a filter link to 'find your concillor' which gives options of 'by name' , 'by political party' or 'ward'

Selecting 'ward' & selecting my area & I FINALLY get a list of 3 names, yet they are :-
* Cabinet Member for Employment, Skills & Aspiration
* Cabinet Member for Co-Production
* Health Scrutiny Committee

None of which seem relevant to my problem, so my choices are either phone these 3 to see they can help,  the other 50+ councillors in the hope they're the one or do the one email, which I've done

Guess I just have to be patient