Person tripped over my outside cable cover whilst charging car...

Section62

Baldytyke88 said:

Grey_Critic said:

You cannot run a cable (or anything else) across the pavement even with the appropriate safety covers/precautions without a permit. I also discussed this with an assessing officer who confirmed this fact. If someone falls over it then you will be held liable.

But you can with a permit!

There are two different things being talked about here.  A 'permit' is issued where a 'streetworks permit scheme' is in operation - this regulates when and where statutory undertakers (e.g. utility companies) are allowed to carry out work in the highway that the law allows them to do.  The work is highly regulated and the companies doing it have a whole raft of obligations including insurance, method statements, supervision etc etc.  Responsibility and liability rests (in the main) with the statutory undertaker.

A statutory undertaker carrying out streetworks could lay a temporary cable over the highway - for example to connect a temporary traffic light.  The 'permit' (if one is needed) allows the statutory undertaker to be carrying out the work in general, but it isn't what permits the cable on the highway specifically.  Having a permit also doesn't exempt the undertaker from S162 - if they lay a temporary cable "in such a manner as to be likely to cause danger to persons using the highway" they could still be convicted of an offence, although prosecution under the H&S Acts might be more likely.  If the stat undertaker is complying with the requirements of the licence, NRSWA/TMA, and Chapter 8, then there shouldn't be a danger to the public.

However, because of the risks involved in having temporary cables laid over the highway this is now something stat undertakers try to avoid - for example by using radio-linked temporary traffic signals in place of cabled ones.

The second thing is a 'licence'.  A highway authority can issue a licence for something which would normally be considered an obstruction of the highway to allow it to be there - for example scaffolding.  But before issuing a licence the highway authority have to satisfy themselves that the licenced activity doesn't pose a danger to highway users or cause unnecessary obstruction.  The Highways Acts also allow some things to be done with the 'permission' of the highway authority - which most HA's now call a licence as well.  Typically when you apply for a licence the highway authority will want evidence of public liability insurance, and will specify in clear terms what is being licenced and for how long, as well as there being an 'inspection' requirement.

So for someone like the OP wanting to charge their EV on the road the council cannot issue a (streetworks) 'permit' as the OP isn't a statutory undertaker.  In theory the council could issue a licence for the charging cable, but in practice they couldn't satisfy themselves it doesn't pose a danger to road users.  Highway authorities giving permission or a licence for individuals running EV charging cables across the highway are going out on a limb, and sooner or later one of them is going to suffer a very expensive legal bill.

Baldytyke88 said:

How many people have changed the brake disks/pads on their car, charged the battery, without issue?

Yes, someone may complain about the house up the road fixing numerous cars on the roadside, but we need a solution to this issue.

There's a difference here in that those kinds of maintenance tasks are normally done while you are there, or nearby.  If someone is about to walk into the wheel you've left on the footway you can shout a warning to them.  You may be breaking the law by doing these sort of things on the highway, and in any case could still be held liable for damages/injury caused to others.

An EV cable usually isn't 'attended', in the same way and there won't necessarily be someone around to warn highway users of the risk.

The ultimate solution is probably going to involve people without off-street parking either getting used to charging their EV elsewhere (workplace/shops), or for council/commercially provided charging points to become more common on street.  Whichever, it will need to be a regulated activity with clarity on liability and responsibilities, because that is how highway law has to work.

HillStreetBlues

As the OP's issue will no doubt crop up more, in the race to ban ICE vehicles, is there a plan on how all the future electric vehicles will be charged?

Grey_Critic

Section62 explains things in far more detail than I did but I receive regular updates from the Heath & Safety Exec which also list various accidents/injuries and Deaths of people that were all avoidable if someone had actually just givem a little thought.

An obstruction (the EV cable) across a footpath after dark is just begging for someone to fall over it. From a personal perspective we have had (and continue) to spend a lot of time looking for possible trip hazards as my wife suffers from Osteoporosis and a fracture to the spine besides other conditions. She is fragile enough that a fall could be fatal.

Should for some reason it was to be her walking along the pavement and tripping are you prepared for the consequences.

H&S is a pain I agree but it has to be taken very seriously. When people query such things with me I always quote a phrase used in a Ford Motor Co training session - Put Yourself in Their Shoes -

Baldytyke88

HillStreetBlues said:

As the OP's issue will no doubt crop up more, in the race to ban ICE vehicles, is there a plan on how all the future electric vehicles will be charged?

I have been to council meetings where councillors are pushing for something to happen, but red tape and health n safety is slowing things down.

Mildly_Miffed

HillStreetBlues said:

As the OP's issue will no doubt crop up more, in the race to ban ICE vehicles, is there a plan on how all the future electric vehicles will be charged?

Strangely, yes.

I've already posted this link twice in this thread:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cross-pavement-solutions-for-charging-electric-vehicles/cross-pavement-solutions-for-charging-electric-vehicles

It's somewhere between a non-problem and a minority issue anyway.

Two-thirds of housing in the UK has off-road parking, or the potential for it.
Even in London, 44% has or could have (while 46% of London households do not have a car).

The average car in the UK covers just 7,500 miles/year, less than 150 miles per week, so would need charging less frequently than once a week, many just once a fortnight.

All it needs is a better commercial charging network to cover the minority who can't charge at home, and don't have any charging provision at the other end of a daily commute either.

HillStreetBlues

Mildly_Miffed said:

HillStreetBlues said:

As the OP's issue will no doubt crop up more, in the race to ban ICE vehicles, is there a plan on how all the future electric vehicles will be charged?

Strangely, yes.

I've already posted this link twice in this thread:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cross-pavement-solutions-for-charging-electric-vehicles/cross-pavement-solutions-for-charging-electric-vehicles

It's somewhere between a non-problem and a minority issue anyway.

Two-thirds of housing in the UK has off-road parking, or the potential for it.
Even in London, 44% has or could have (while 46% of London households do not have a car).

The average car in the UK covers just 7,500 miles/year, less than 150 miles per week, so would need charging less frequently than once a week, many just once a fortnight.

All it needs is a better commercial charging network to cover the minority who can't charge at home, and don't have any charging provision at the other end of a daily commute either.

I would expect those who don't have a easy place to charge wouldn't think of it as a non-problem

WellKnownSid

HillStreetBlues said:

As the OP's issue will no doubt crop up more, in the race to ban ICE vehicles, is there a plan on how all the future electric vehicles will be charged?

Doubt there is a plan but the collision with reality will sharpen minds. We manage to keep over 40 million vehicles topped up with flammable liquid on this island I’m sure we can figure out a few electric cables.

HillStreetBlues

WellKnownSid said:

HillStreetBlues said:

As the OP's issue will no doubt crop up more, in the race to ban ICE vehicles, is there a plan on how all the future electric vehicles will be charged?

Doubt there is a plan but the collision with reality will sharpen minds. We manage to keep over 40 million vehicles topped up with flammable liquid on this island I’m sure we can figure out a few electric cables.

We do, but when we transitioned from steam to flammable liquid we didn't suddenly ban steam vehicles.

Mildly_Miffed

WellKnownSid said:

HillStreetBlues said:

As the OP's issue will no doubt crop up more, in the race to ban ICE vehicles, is there a plan on how all the future electric vehicles will be charged?

Doubt there is a plan but the collision with reality will sharpen minds. We manage to keep over 40 million vehicles topped up with flammable liquid on this island I’m sure we can figure out a few electric cables.

You do realise there's quite a bit of strict legislation around that...?

https://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petrol-storage-club-association.htm
https://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/owner-petrol-station.htm

Diesel isn't particularly flammable, so the regulations are more about spillage than explosion risk.

WellKnownSid

Mildly_Miffed said:

WellKnownSid said:

HillStreetBlues said:

As the OP's issue will no doubt crop up more, in the race to ban ICE vehicles, is there a plan on how all the future electric vehicles will be charged?

Doubt there is a plan but the collision with reality will sharpen minds. We manage to keep over 40 million vehicles topped up with flammable liquid on this island I’m sure we can figure out a few electric cables.

You do realise there's quite a bit of strict legislation around that...?

https://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petrol-storage-club-association.htm
https://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/owner-petrol-station.htm

Diesel isn't particularly flammable, so the regulations are more about spillage than explosion risk.

And despite the legislation we’ve figured out a safe system of work where the general public can fill up without catching fire.  It’s all about perspective.