In the event of a power outage like Spain.......

mmmmikey

MouldyOldDough said:

MWT said:

mark_cycling00 said:

I created my 3-5 day emergency box a few weeks ago. There can be a "weakest link" in every aspect of infrastructure so I assume that everything might fail. 

Similar mind-set here but different solution, we have 27kWh of Tesla Powerwalls and another 40-80kWh available via V2L from one of our EVs.

So MWT will be in a brightly illuminated home with music blaring out of their HiFi - living on fresh roast beef from their freezer, cooked in their electric oven - whilst the rest of the local residents are fighting over dead rats for sustenance - I am sure that they will all be standing around your property congratulating you for your foresight ...
Do you have a gun and a panic room ?

Where I live, if someone had a log burning stove and a backup power supply they would invite their neighbours round to share the roast beef and enjoy the fire. That's what us simple country-folk would do anyway, not sure about the rest of you?

All this discussion does make you realise what an absolute bargain 50p per day in standing charges is as a contribution to maintaining such a critical bit of infrastructure.

Anyway, this reminds me, must go and buy some petrol for the generator. I wouldn't want the electric fence to fail and find myself at the mercy of the hoardes of mutant zombies. That's what inevitably happens if people start eating rats - they become zombies. I know that for a fact because I read it on the internet

FreeBear

mmmmikey said: Anyway, this reminds me, must go and buy some petrol for the generator. I wouldn't want the electric fence to fail and find myself at the mercy of the hoardes of mutant zombies. That's what inevitably happens if people start eating rats - they become zombies. I know that for a fact because I read it on the internet

Don't forget the toilet paper

pseudodox

Grew up in rural area subject to power cuts, so have life lessons which cope now with occasional outages.  Last winter an electric one was over 10 hours - I was the only house on the street with lighting other than candles.  Sat by the gas fire, reading by camp lamplight, battery radio for news catch up.  Hot meal & drinks no problem.  Cosy.

Never had a gas outage but have gas oven, gas hob, backed up by calor camping stove - so am covered for cooking and heating water. Gas fire backed up by hi-tec paraffin heater - so I can keep warm.  Large camping lanterns provide good light.  Torches kept in strategic places around the house.  Battery radio for entertainment.

Freezer in garage stays cold for many hours, if covered in old duvets, cushions, carpet, cardboard etc.  Ice packs from freezer can help keep fridge cold.

Old PAYG dumb phone does not need WiFi hub & battery lasts for weeks.  I keep car petrol topped up - no running out of ability to get out & about.  Electric garage door has a manual handle so I am not locked in or out.

Always have stock of bottled water & a bucketful from the garden pond can flush the loo!

Plenty of rice, pasta, beans, pulses, dried goods, tinned food in stock - I could survive for a month.

It's all about spreading the risk/options.  Call me old fashioned but power disruption is such a minor inconvenience I am happy to be so.  Would I want to be 100% reliable on electric in these uncertain times?  No thanks.

Scot_39

See The Telegraph is speculating / if not explicitly blaming high renewables content in Spains energy network - as a  (potential) factor in this outage - largely solar 53% vs wind 11% just ahead of the outage.

But I suspect that may be a regular enough event in Spain.

Academia - sponsored by grid and govts alike - and grid companies rhemselves - have been worrying about balance and stability for at least couple of decades - as the renewables share of load increases so dramatically. 

Also reports that the interconnects to other nations grids were used to get power back up in North from France.  A link across border stopped at one stage - but note there were issues in France too for a brief period and power cuts - cause or effect - did Spain pull France down or vice versa etc -  will no doubt be examined in post analysis.

And in South relied on power one article said I think they said Morocco.

So had to rely on others grid / generation stability not just their own.

Part of the reserved energy capacity at a couple of our pumped hydros is to provide initial grid level cold restart - at stable voltage and frequency.  It's not all available for surge load balance or generation smoothing.

And it's a stark reminder - keeping the system balanced is key -  it took nearly 18 hrs - to get full GW delivery to match normal daily demand back to near nominal by early AM this morning - that in a significant shutdown the grids in any nation cannot be started back up instantly.

The Telegraph may be wrong to tie to renewables - but their is lots of proven analysis on the risks.  
And our NG is investing in tech - including inertia stabilisers -  to improve our grid robustness as abandon core generation sources.

Generation and demand must be kept in near sync - theres only so much room for transient mismatch and rapid changes provided by things like surge generation (hydro / now some battery) and reactive load matching at grid substations.

And why maybe 5GW of domestic solar output is not as beneficial - not as risk free - as many might think.  As that alone represents an unregulated by network 20% of demand on a summers day.

This was not the short lived outages many of us see in UK - for instance seen reports on social media of one this morning in WM (Warwickshire) that took out reportedly a few 10,000s homes - was recovered quickly - like many non rural trips - often seconds before power reset or rerouted.

And of course a stark reminder why it pays to invest in potentially our core generation if Telegraph article speculation corect - and grid systems.

mmmmikey

Scot_39 said:

See The Telegraph is speculating / if not explicitly blaming high renewables content in Spains energy network - as a  (potential) factor in this outage - largely solar 53% vs wind 11% just ahead of the outage.

But I suspect that may be a regular enough event in Spain.

Academia - sponsored by grid and govts alike - and grid companies rhemselves - have been worrying about balance and stability for at least couple of decades - as the renewables share of load increases so dramatically. 

Also reports that the interconnects to other nations grids were used to get power back up in North from France.  A link across border stopped at one stage - but note there were issues in France too for a brief period and power cuts - cause or effect - did Spain pull France down or vice versa etc -  will no doubt be examined in post analysis.

And in South relied on power one article said I think they said Morocco.

So had to rely on others grid / generation stability not just their own.

Part of the reserved energy capacity at a couple of our pumped hydros is to provide initial grid level cold restart - at stable voltage and frequency.  It's not all available for surge load balance or generation smoothing.

And it's a stark reminder - keeping the system balanced is key -  it took nearly 18 hrs - to get full GW delivery to match normal daily demand back to near nominal by early AM this morning - that in a significant shutdown the grids in any nation cannot be started back up instantly.

The Telegraph may be wrong to tie to renewables - but their is lots of proven analysis on the risks.  
And our NG is investing in tech - including inertia stabilisers -  to improve our grid robustness as abandon core generation sources.

Generation and demand must be kept in near sync - theres only so much room for transient mismatch and rapid changes provided by things like surge generation (hydro / now some battery) and reactive load matching at grid substations.

And why maybe 5GW of domestic solar output is not as beneficial - not as risk free - as many might think.  As that alone represents an unregulated by network 20% of demand on a summers day.

This was not the short lived outages many of us see in UK - for instance seen reports on social media of one this morning in WM (Warwickshire) that took out reportedly a few 10,000s homes - was recovered quickly - like many non rural trips - often seconds before power reset or rerouted.

And of course a stark reminder why it pays to invest in potentially our core generation if Telegraph article speculation corect - and grid systems.

Better not to speculate but wait until we actually know what the issue was. 

You can bet that regardless of the situation, the anti-green lobby will try and convince us that the problem was due to green energy (looking at you @Scot_39 ), and the green lobby will try and convince us that more domestic green energy is the solution.

Regardless of the truth it will hopefully prove to be a wake up call and encourage more people to make the simple preparations that their parents used to and follow the lead of @pseudodox and the like from this thread.

Some practical advice here for anyone who's focus is on being prepared rather than debating the politics:

https://prepare.campaign.gov.uk/

pseudodox

My prolonged electric outage was due to a freak fire at a local substation - truly a meltdown moment.  As @mmmmikey said above the daily standing charge to get me restored in less than 12 hours was a bargain - cheaper than a box of candles.

Forgot to include that I can even boil a stove top kettle on my paraffin heater.  Two birds with one stone.

https://www.nationalheatershops.co.uk/p/qlima-r7227s-tc-2-paraffin-wick-heater-battery-powered/

Scot_39

There's a big difference between being anti poor technical implementations and planning and associated extra transition costs  than being anti net zero in a realistic and pragmatic fashion.

Taking into account not just supply costs but total costs facing many households and businesses - the for too many unaffordable costs - of current strategies.

mmmmikey

Scot_39 said:

There's a big difference between being anti poor technical implementations and planning and associated extra transition costs  than being anti net zero in a realistic and pragmatic fashion.

Taking into account not just supply costs but total costs facing many households and businesses - the for too many unaffordable costs - of current strategies.

....and there's a big difference between actually implementing a massive transition to energy supply against a backdrop of competing interests and costs and complaining about it from the comfort of your arm chair based on internet research flavoured by confirmation bias.

matelodave

We just decant ourselves into our caravan where there's gas cooking, central heating and enough battery to keep us powered up for around 48 hours, even more if the sun shines as there's a solar panel on the roof.

The worst we have had so far is around 12 hours when the wind brought down the overhead power lines.

michaels

Rather than all those tins and a backup generator, surely cheaper to just have a shotgun licence and some large mates?