In the event of a power outage like Spain.......

tghe-retford

One of the things noted from the outage is how dependant people are on mobiles for news and information. I heard of one report where someone opened their car doors and turned their radio up for everyone to hear the latest news as mobile networks were either out of action (despite battery backup) or restricting traffic for emergency and urgent traffic.

It shows that in our push to make everything online that there is still a place for broadcasting in emergencies.

MattMattMattUK

michaels said:

Rather than all those tins and a backup generator, surely cheaper to just have a shotgun licence and some large mates?

I remember being asked during Covid if I was worried about society collapsing, I said not at the moment no. When asked what I would do if I thought it was a genuine risk, would I stockpile toilet roll, canned food, bottled water I said no, ammunition and antibiotics, they looked a bit confused and said why, I did wonder why anyone could not understand.

Sea_Shell

MattMattMattUK said:

michaels said:

Rather than all those tins and a backup generator, surely cheaper to just have a shotgun licence and some large mates?

I remember being asked during Covid if I was worried about society collapsing, I said not at the moment no. When asked what I would do if I thought it was a genuine risk, would I stockpile toilet roll, canned food, bottled water I said no, ammunition and antibiotics, they looked a bit confused and said why, I did wonder why anyone could not understand.

Insulin would be a problem too.  How to keep it refrigerated?

MattMattMattUK

Sea_Shell said:

MattMattMattUK said:

michaels said:

Rather than all those tins and a backup generator, surely cheaper to just have a shotgun licence and some large mates?

I remember being asked during Covid if I was worried about society collapsing, I said not at the moment no. When asked what I would do if I thought it was a genuine risk, would I stockpile toilet roll, canned food, bottled water I said no, ammunition and antibiotics, they looked a bit confused and said why, I did wonder why anyone could not understand.

Insulin would be a problem too.  How to keep it refrigerated?

I was thinking for myself/family rather than society at large, so insulin was not on my list. 
The answer would be solar and a battery, a camper van fridge and a small panel set would likely be enough for that, but that would only work for storage which would only delay the inevitable if production and new stock was not available. 

michaels

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20250430-what-we-know-so-far-about-the-massive-blackout-that-hit-spain-and-portugal

Some interesting info here suggesting a period of increasing fluctuations rather than a trigger event.

Once things went too far out of tolerance it seems like loads shedding did not work as happened in the UK in  2019 when our grid was hit by two almost simultaneous supply outages.

I am wondering their was some sort of feedback failure where perhaps too much load was shed, voltage surged, more supply went offline and repeat. The mechanics of load shedding may be poorly understood where there is a lot of embedded generation.

What is weird is that renewables were well below levels seen previously so there was a fair bit of high inertia generation on the grid a lack of which is what most see as the reason renewables may increase grid instability.

Final thoughts is why are there not more experts chipping in to the debate?

MWT

MouldyOldDough said:

MWT said:

mark_cycling00 said:

I created my 3-5 day emergency box a few weeks ago. There can be a "weakest link" in every aspect of infrastructure so I assume that everything might fail. 

Similar mind-set here but different solution, we have 27kWh of Tesla Powerwalls and another 40-80kWh available via V2L from one of our EVs.

So MWT will be in a brightly illuminated home with music blaring out of their HiFi - living on fresh roast beef from their freezer, cooked in their electric oven - whilst the rest of the local residents are fighting over dead rats for sustenance - I am sure that they will all be standing around your property congratulating you for your foresight ...
Do you have a gun and a panic room ?

You've met my neighbours then?

Obviously we would be rigged for 'silent running' blackout blinds and low-volume on the Dolby Atmos cinema room. Go outside to exchange a few moans with the unsettled populace about the lack of decent rats these days then return to the comfort indoors. Phase 2 is a shift to 'Omega Man'/'I am Legend' mode but hopefully not for at least 48 hours, but determined by the pace of civil unrest

In all seriousness, we know where the nearest vulnerable people are around us, and the car gives us a decent amount of external mobile power that can be relocated in a real emergency.

MattMattMattUK

michaels said:

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20250430-what-we-know-so-far-about-the-massive-blackout-that-hit-spain-and-portugal

Some interesting info here suggesting a period of increasing fluctuations rather than a trigger event.

Once things went too far out of tolerance it seems like loads shedding did not work as happened in the UK in  2019 when our grid was hit by two almost simultaneous supply outages.

I am wondering their was some sort of feedback failure where perhaps too much load was shed, voltage surged, more supply went offline and repeat. The mechanics of load shedding may be poorly understood where there is a lot of embedded generation.

What is weird is that renewables were well below levels seen previously so there was a fair bit of high inertia generation on the grid a lack of which is what most see as the reason renewables may increase grid instability.

My very limited understanding is that grid operators are looking at remodelling their systems to cope with distributed generation. Traditionally generation only came from power plants which were big and easy to account for and it was high usage industrial plants that usually shed first as they had contracts which allowed them to do so, then dropping other supply as needed. Now with lots if distributed generation it is far more complicated, frequency shifts can also then cause export generation to stop exporting further destabilising the supply as more generation goes offline. It is one of the reasons why the grid needs upgrading, to allow it to cope with all of this.

michaels said:

Final thoughts is why are there not more experts chipping in to the debate?

I imagine that many of them will be waiting for more facts before they jump in, rather than speculating based on very limited information. 

booneruk

michaels said:

Final thoughts is why are there not more experts chipping in to the debate?

I guess because speculation is pointless. I waded through the Telegraph's drivel yesterday and decided I'd just wait for the official diagnosis.

Obviously there are certain types who would suggest 'official' diagnosis is a cover up. I do love an armchair expert.

michaels

MattMattMattUK said:

michaels said:

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20250430-what-we-know-so-far-about-the-massive-blackout-that-hit-spain-and-portugal

Some interesting info here suggesting a period of increasing fluctuations rather than a trigger event.

Once things went too far out of tolerance it seems like loads shedding did not work as happened in the UK in  2019 when our grid was hit by two almost simultaneous supply outages.

I am wondering their was some sort of feedback failure where perhaps too much load was shed, voltage surged, more supply went offline and repeat. The mechanics of load shedding may be poorly understood where there is a lot of embedded generation.

What is weird is that renewables were well below levels seen previously so there was a fair bit of high inertia generation on the grid a lack of which is what most see as the reason renewables may increase grid instability.

My very limited understanding is that grid operators are looking at remodelling their systems to cope with distributed generation. Traditionally generation only came from power plants which were big and easy to account for and it was high usage industrial plants that usually shed first as they had contracts which allowed them to do so, then dropping other supply as needed. Now with lots if distributed generation it is far more complicated, frequency shifts can also then cause export generation to stop exporting further destabilising the supply as more generation goes offline. It is one of the reasons why the grid needs upgrading, to allow it to cope with all of this.

michaels said:

Final thoughts is why are there not more experts chipping in to the debate?

I imagine that many of them will be waiting for more facts before they jump in, rather than speculating based on very limited information. 

But the mechanics of grid management could be explained

Eg
1 unexpected supply outage leads to voltage and or frequency drop
2 grid normally has some stand by capacity perhaps the talked of inertia
3 Also there are then plans for controlled load shedding as happened in 2019 in the UK

Which then begs the question of why this did not happen in Spain which could be speculated on?

Sea_Shell

michaels said:

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20250430-what-we-know-so-far-about-the-massive-blackout-that-hit-spain-and-portugal

Some interesting info here suggesting a period of increasing fluctuations rather than a trigger event.

Once things went too far out of tolerance it seems like loads shedding did not work as happened in the UK in  2019 when our grid was hit by two almost simultaneous supply outages.

I am wondering their was some sort of feedback failure where perhaps too much load was shed, voltage surged, more supply went offline and repeat. The mechanics of load shedding may be poorly understood where there is a lot of embedded generation.

What is weird is that renewables were well below levels seen previously so there was a fair bit of high inertia generation on the grid a lack of which is what most see as the reason renewables may increase grid instability.

Final thoughts is why are there not more experts chipping in to the debate?

The electrical equivalent of towing a caravan and it starts to weave about, getting worse and worse, until it either jackknives or rolls over? 😉🤔