New council tax powers re second homes

StevieD54

I believe these draconian measures have now reached second home owners in England?

However, this situation has existed for some time here in Wales. My parents neighbours, a married couple from Manchester, have a small 2 bed bungalow in N Wales as their ‘holiday home’. Last year they were charged 100% premium on their council tax, and this year, they are being asked for another 150% on top, a bill now reaching £6000! My parents bungalow, next door, is £2200 ish. This prompted me to have a think about this. 

Firstly, what is the actual definition of a second home? Furnished/unfurnished? Rented out/not rented out? Occupied/unoccupied?  Then I wondered if this couple could put their Manchester home in one spouse’s name and the N Wales property in the other's name? So they both could then say: ‘well I only own one home’. Does this mean the council should then only charge them both a ‘normal’ council tax rate? How on earth can the council possibly check how long or how often in a year they visit the holiday home?

tacpot12

The locals will dob them in.

flaneurs_lobster

StevieD54 said:

 Then I wondered if this couple could put their Manchester home in one spouse’s name and the N Wales property in the other's name? So they both could then say: ‘well I only own one home’. 

Even better, they could then both claim the single occupier discount. If you are going to defraud the system then you might as well go full in.

And then the locals will dob them in.

TheSpectator

StevieD54 said:

I believe these draconian measures have now reached second home owners in England?

However, this situation has existed for some time here in Wales. My parents neighbours, a married couple from Manchester, have a small 2 bed bungalow in N Wales as their ‘holiday home’. Last year they were charged 100% premium on their council tax, and this year, they are being asked for another 150% on top, a bill now reaching £6000! My parents bungalow, next door, is £2200 ish. This prompted me to have a think about this. 

Firstly, what is the actual definition of a second home? Furnished/unfurnished? Rented out/not rented out? Occupied/unoccupied?  Then I wondered if this couple could put their Manchester home in one spouse’s name and the N Wales property in the other's name? So they both could then say: ‘well I only own one home’. Does this mean the council should then only charge them both a ‘normal’ council tax rate? How on earth can the council possibly check how long or how often in a year they visit the holiday home?

One word for this bonkers idea = fraud.

Are your parents happy to commit fraud or is this your silly musings?

StevieD54

TheSpectator said:

One word for this bonkers idea = fraud.

Are your parents happy to commit fraud or is this your silly musings?

How is owning one home fraud? And what has this idea got to do with my parents, this is about their neighbours.
And as for the neighbours ‘dobbing them in’, how would the neighbours know what council tax they pay? 

DullGreyGuy

StevieD54 said:

I believe these draconian measures have now reached second home owners in England?

However, this situation has existed for some time here in Wales. My parents neighbours, a married couple from Manchester, have a small 2 bed bungalow in N Wales as their ‘holiday home’. Last year they were charged 100% premium on their council tax, and this year, they are being asked for another 150% on top, a bill now reaching £6000! My parents bungalow, next door, is £2200 ish. This prompted me to have a think about this. 

Firstly, what is the actual definition of a second home? Furnished/unfurnished? Rented out/not rented out? Occupied/unoccupied?  Then I wondered if this couple could put their Manchester home in one spouse’s name and the N Wales property in the other's name? So they both could then say: ‘well I only own one home’. Does this mean the council should then only charge them both a ‘normal’ council tax rate? How on earth can the council possibly check how long or how often in a year they visit the holiday home?

Not draconian at all... councils are having significant funding issues. The basic principle of tax has always been that those that can afford it should be the ones that pay it. If you can afford to run multiple homes then you can afford to pay the additional tax. People having empty holiday properties drive up prices in towns and exacerbates the housing shortage problems. 

It's not a matter of ownership but one of being responsible for the council tax of multiple properties. So were they to rent the property out to a tenant so return the property to daily use for a local then the tenant would be liable for the council tax and there would be no escalation of the council tax other than if there are long vacant periods where liability returns to your parents. 

It would matter who is living at the property not who's name its in, so unless you are proposing your parents live in separate houses for the vast majority of the time you are suggesting they make fraudulent declarations, the council tax will look very cheap compared to the consequences when the respective councils find out. 

FlorayG

In order to claim occupancy you have to actually BE the occupant, so one of the couple would have to LIVE in each house; otherwise it's fraud
Who owns it is irrelevant. The definition of a second home is a separate dwelling for which you and nobody else is responsible

Tabieth

It’s not draconian. It’s a reasonable way for cash-strapped Local Authorities to raise much-needed funds. 

And there’s nothing to stop a couple committing fraud in this way. Apart from morals, being law abiding, and fear of the consequences…

Bookworm225

so you think councils do not cross check their data with each other?
such naivety 
the world woke up to anti fraud measures long ago.

Albermarle

DullGreyGuy said:

StevieD54 said:

I believe these draconian measures have now reached second home owners in England?

However, this situation has existed for some time here in Wales. My parents neighbours, a married couple from Manchester, have a small 2 bed bungalow in N Wales as their ‘holiday home’. Last year they were charged 100% premium on their council tax, and this year, they are being asked for another 150% on top, a bill now reaching £6000! My parents bungalow, next door, is £2200 ish. This prompted me to have a think about this. 

Firstly, what is the actual definition of a second home? Furnished/unfurnished? Rented out/not rented out? Occupied/unoccupied?  Then I wondered if this couple could put their Manchester home in one spouse’s name and the N Wales property in the other's name? So they both could then say: ‘well I only own one home’. Does this mean the council should then only charge them both a ‘normal’ council tax rate? How on earth can the council possibly check how long or how often in a year they visit the holiday home?

Not draconian at all... councils are having significant funding issues. The basic principle of tax has always been that those that can afford it should be the ones that pay it. If you can afford to run multiple homes then you can afford to pay the additional tax. People having empty holiday properties drive up prices in towns and exacerbates the housing shortage problems. 

It's not a matter of ownership but one of being responsible for the council tax of multiple properties. So were they to rent the property out to a tenant so return the property to daily use for a local then the tenant would be liable for the council tax and there would be no escalation of the council tax other than if there are long vacant periods where liability returns to your parents. 

It would matter who is living at the property not who's name its in, so unless you are proposing your parents live in separate houses for the vast majority of the time you are suggesting they make fraudulent declarations, the council tax will look very cheap compared to the consequences when the respective councils find out. 

OP is talking about his parents neighbours, not his actual parents.
Otherwise your comments still hold. 

SiliconChip

Bookworm225 said:

so you think councils do not cross check their data with each other?
such naivety 
the world woke up to anti fraud measures long ago.

I know a couple who have been doing this for years and so far neither council has done anything about it.