New council tax powers re second homes

lincroft1710

ReadySteadyPop said:

MobileSaver said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MeteredOut said:

Olinda99 said:

I think the powers that be (and probably society in general) are moving towards a view that having a second home is unacceptable behaviour

I disagree. The view is that it is a fortunate position to be in and "those with the broadest shoulders should carry the greater weight" (© Every politician since 1980)

Many with second homes just took on a lot of mortgage debt though, they don`t have "broad shoulders" in the sense of truly wealthy people.

Anyone that can afford a second home, whether mortgaged or not, has "broader shoulders" than the average person in the UK...

Anyone? I`m not sure that having two lots of mortgage debt means you automatically have spare cash to bail out councils, I would have thought with higher interest rates the more debt you have the less spare cash you have?

Not everyone who has a second home has 2 mortgages or even one.

sheramber

ReadySteadyPop said:

MobileSaver said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MeteredOut said:

Olinda99 said:

I think the powers that be (and probably society in general) are moving towards a view that having a second home is unacceptable behaviour

I disagree. The view is that it is a fortunate position to be in and "those with the broadest shoulders should carry the greater weight" (© Every politician since 1980)

Many with second homes just took on a lot of mortgage debt though, they don`t have "broad shoulders" in the sense of truly wealthy people.

Anyone that can afford a second home, whether mortgaged or not, has "broader shoulders" than the average person in the UK...

Anyone? I`m not sure that having two lots of mortgage debt means you automatically have spare cash to bail out councils, I would have thought with higher interest rates the more debt you have the less spare cash you have?

Then sell up, just S those who can no longer afford to run two cars because the price of insurance and fuel has gone up.

Tabieth

ReadySteadyPop said:

MobileSaver said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MeteredOut said:

Olinda99 said:

I think the powers that be (and probably society in general) are moving towards a view that having a second home is unacceptable behaviour

I disagree. The view is that it is a fortunate position to be in and "those with the broadest shoulders should carry the greater weight" (© Every politician since 1980)

Many with second homes just took on a lot of mortgage debt though, they don`t have "broad shoulders" in the sense of truly wealthy people.

Anyone that can afford a second home, whether mortgaged or not, has "broader shoulders" than the average person in the UK...

Anyone? I`m not sure that having two lots of mortgage debt means you automatically have spare cash to bail out councils, I would have thought with higher interest rates the more debt you have the less spare cash you have?

To be eligible for two mortgages, a person had to be earning a significant amount. Certainly way above the national average. Anyone who can even think of buying more than one property is, by definition, doing well. 

ReadySteadyPop

lincroft1710 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MobileSaver said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MeteredOut said:

Olinda99 said:

I think the powers that be (and probably society in general) are moving towards a view that having a second home is unacceptable behaviour

I disagree. The view is that it is a fortunate position to be in and "those with the broadest shoulders should carry the greater weight" (© Every politician since 1980)

Many with second homes just took on a lot of mortgage debt though, they don`t have "broad shoulders" in the sense of truly wealthy people.

Anyone that can afford a second home, whether mortgaged or not, has "broader shoulders" than the average person in the UK...

Anyone? I`m not sure that having two lots of mortgage debt means you automatically have spare cash to bail out councils, I would have thought with higher interest rates the more debt you have the less spare cash you have?

Not everyone who has a second home has 2 mortgages or even one.

No but many do, just because someone owns a holiday bolthole it doesn`t mean they have loads of spare cash, it might have done before the cheap debt era but not now.

ReadySteadyPop

Tabieth said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MobileSaver said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MeteredOut said:

Olinda99 said:

I think the powers that be (and probably society in general) are moving towards a view that having a second home is unacceptable behaviour

I disagree. The view is that it is a fortunate position to be in and "those with the broadest shoulders should carry the greater weight" (© Every politician since 1980)

Many with second homes just took on a lot of mortgage debt though, they don`t have "broad shoulders" in the sense of truly wealthy people.

Anyone that can afford a second home, whether mortgaged or not, has "broader shoulders" than the average person in the UK...

Anyone? I`m not sure that having two lots of mortgage debt means you automatically have spare cash to bail out councils, I would have thought with higher interest rates the more debt you have the less spare cash you have?

To be eligible for two mortgages, a person had to be earning a significant amount. Certainly way above the national average. Anyone who can even think of buying more than one property is, by definition, doing well. 

Not really, many landlords are struggling for example.

Tabieth

ReadySteadyPop said:

Tabieth said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MobileSaver said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MeteredOut said:

Olinda99 said:

I think the powers that be (and probably society in general) are moving towards a view that having a second home is unacceptable behaviour

I disagree. The view is that it is a fortunate position to be in and "those with the broadest shoulders should carry the greater weight" (© Every politician since 1980)

Many with second homes just took on a lot of mortgage debt though, they don`t have "broad shoulders" in the sense of truly wealthy people.

Anyone that can afford a second home, whether mortgaged or not, has "broader shoulders" than the average person in the UK...

Anyone? I`m not sure that having two lots of mortgage debt means you automatically have spare cash to bail out councils, I would have thought with higher interest rates the more debt you have the less spare cash you have?

To be eligible for two mortgages, a person had to be earning a significant amount. Certainly way above the national average. Anyone who can even think of buying more than one property is, by definition, doing well. 

Not really, many landlords are struggling for example.

Yes, clearly some landlords are struggling. And some may have taken on too much debt as BTL landlords. But the facts remain. The vast majority of people in the U.K. do not own a second (or third, or fourth…) home. Most people, when they go in holiday, stay in a hotel or Airbnb, not a “holiday bolthole”. Those who do own more than one property are more affluent than most. And they should pay their fair share. 

Grumpy_chap

ReadySteadyPop said:

Tabieth said:

To be eligible for two mortgages, a person had to be earning a significant amount. Certainly way above the national average. Anyone who can even think of buying more than one property is, by definition, doing well. 

Not really, many landlords are struggling for example.

Not really, in the context of this thread, those LLs are still "doing well" by reference to the average.
The LLs may be over-leveraged and may have made insufficient provision for financial resilience, but they will have needed 25% deposit typically to obtain the BTL mortgage.  That is a good amount of equity.

In the context of this discussion, LLs are not really relevant as the LL with the property let out will not be liable for Council Tax which will fall to the Tenant who will pay at standard CT rate without the second-home uplift in consideration.

(Some exceptions apply, such as LL in a void period, T with two rented homes).

Murphybear

Bigphil1474 said:

OP, the premiums on council tax are designed to discourage second home ownership, particularly in coastal towns/holiday destinations. This doesn't cover commercially owned holiday homes operated as a business. By discouraging second home ownership, the idea is that more people live in these locations full time rather than someone bobbing over for a few weeks in the summer. The person living there could work, raise a family, and use local services which means that the local community has more permanent residents and has a better year round population.

Seaside venues often become ghost towns over winter which puts additional strain on the local community and the services provided/available. You may well see it as draconian, but in reality I think it's more of a last ditch effort to change a long term decline in coastal towns, to take them back to the sort of place that saw people wanting second homes their in the first place.

Ultimately, these coastal towns could end up with no permanent jobs for locals so they all move out, and your neighbours parents end up owning a second home in an empty town.

Cornwall is one of the most popular areas for 2nd homers and the wages in Cornwall are relatively low. The council put a ruling on one new housing development. The properties could only be sold to locals.

That sounds like a good idea. 

Murphybear

Grumpy_chap said:

StevieD54 said:

I still find it bizarre that second home owners are being asked to pay 3 times more than the locals when they only use council services about 10% of the time those locals do. e.g. bin collections 

Council Tax is a tax.
The Council have to provide certain services.
There is no direct correlation between the two.

Regardless, the 2nd home owner only present 10% of the year does not really save the Council money - the Council need to have the bin collection every week (or fortnight as per local arrangements) and are not able to ramp that collection resource up and down dependent upon when a 2nd home owner unilaterally decides to be in or out of residence.

Other services that the Council provides - for example swimming pools - may suffer by having 2nd home owners only in residence 10% of the year and the Council therefore need to provide greater subsidy to preserve the facility.  An occupied house might use the swimming pool, and pay entrance fee (i.e. generate Council revenue), once a month on average.  The 2nd home owner might only visit once or twice a year, hence the Council revenue is reduced.

True.   When we lived in Devon there was a lovely leisure centre in our small town.  I used to go swimming 3 or 4 times a week.

We didn’t have a lot of 2nd homers though as it right in the middle of Devon, quite a long way from either coast 

Murphybear

ReadySteadyPop said:

lincroft1710 said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MobileSaver said:

ReadySteadyPop said:

MeteredOut said:

Olinda99 said:

I think the powers that be (and probably society in general) are moving towards a view that having a second home is unacceptable behaviour

I disagree. The view is that it is a fortunate position to be in and "those with the broadest shoulders should carry the greater weight" (© Every politician since 1980)

Many with second homes just took on a lot of mortgage debt though, they don`t have "broad shoulders" in the sense of truly wealthy people.

Anyone that can afford a second home, whether mortgaged or not, has "broader shoulders" than the average person in the UK...

Anyone? I`m not sure that having two lots of mortgage debt means you automatically have spare cash to bail out councils, I would have thought with higher interest rates the more debt you have the less spare cash you have?

Not everyone who has a second home has 2 mortgages or even one.

No but many do, just because someone owns a holiday bolthole it doesn`t mean they have loads of spare cash, it might have done before the cheap debt era but not now.

If I had a holiday bolthole I certainly wouldn’t have a lot of spare cash