short term right to reject on a used car - Issues since day 1

photome

julesw1lko said:

Sorry - Just getting a moment between work...

Had a further reply re : ADR.

" Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR)

 At present, Carsa is not part of any formal ADR schemes. However, we are committed to resolving disputes amicably in accordance with the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and will continue to engage with you directly to find a satisfactory resolution."

However... It is reiterated, 45p a mile, full and final charge per the mileage. 

So much for engagement... 

Got a call with a solicitor later, just to get advice. 

Your argument I believe is that you don’t want to pay 45p per mile for the 3.5K miles you have done…

I think you said you had done around 200 miles backwards and forwards to garage which leaves 3300 to pay for

What do you think would be a fair charge per mile

m0bov

If the fault existed on day 1, then the rejection should have been day 1. You've had the use of the car for 5 months. So there is where and tear and loss duty to the mileage. Pay the charge and get the car back. This is nothing to do with short term rejection.

A_Geordie

photome said:

Your argument I believe is that you don’t want to pay 45p per mile for the 3.5K miles you have done…

I think you said you had done around 200 miles backwards and forwards to garage which leaves 3300 to pay for

What do you think would be a fair charge per mile

There could several ways and doesn't necessarily have to be based on a pence per mile. OP could look at car valuation sites or companies as a starting point to get an idea of what the car is valued at now compared to the price paid, with the difference being the deduction for use.

Another option is that if the OP is able to obtain historical data on this specific car make and model and its suggested annual depreciation rate then that could be useful way of arguing deduction for use.

The OP could use the formula devised by Business Companion in the link I provided in a previous post. We know the car is 4 years old so if we assume as an example the car when purchased was valued at £10k  then the formula would be: 

£10,000 x 0.3 = £3,000 / 36,000miles based on average of 12k miles per year = 8p per mile (rounded down from 8.3p). That's a significant difference between the 45p per mile Carsa are claiming. 

The OP mentioned only driving 3500 in 6 months so even if you assumed the annual driving was around 6,000 miles per year, that would under my calculations increase to 11p per mile, still a significant difference. 

Okell

@A_Geordie

When I first read this post I was struck by the fact that although the post title mentioned the short term right to reject it was evident that the OP was posting several months after buying the car in question, so my initial view was that there was no way that this involved the short term right to reject.  (See my first three posts on the thread).

However, as the thread developed it became clear that the op either requested or agreed to a repair on the day of delivery - day zero for the purposes of the short term right to reject – but that the trader delayed attempting that agreed repair until 05 March and the OP only got the car back again on 27 March.

My question was whether – under s22(6), (7) and (8) of the CRA – the 30 day window for the exercise of the short term right to repair was paused from the time that the OP requested or agreed to a repair on day zero to the time that the car came back from attempted repair on 27 March.

If that were the case then the OP is still within the 30 day window to exercise the short term right to reject, the significance of that being that the trader could not charge anything for the use of the vehicle.

I agree this seems a somewhat unlikely and counter-intuitive outcome, but to me it appears to be the inevitable result of s22(6), (7) and (8) as applied to the circumstances recounted by the OP.  (Provided what the OP has told us is accurate).

Assuming that the short term right to reject was paused from 18 October to 27 March, it’s not clear to me whether the OP rejected the car on 27 March or not.  If he didn’t, then my question would be can he still exercise the short term right to reject?  (By my calculation the paused 30 days expires either today or possibly tomorrow)

If he did, but continued using the car, then I’d argue that he should have stopped using it at that point,  and he is liable for a charge for use from that date, but not before.

If I’m wrong and the 30 days was not paused from 18 October 2024 to 27 March 2025, then I agree that the OP is liable for a charge for use from date of delivery to whatever point the car was rejected, and they need to argue the rate with the trader.

A_Geordie

Okell said:

My question was whether – under s22(6), (7) and (8) of the CRA – the 30 day window for the exercise of the short term right to repair was paused from the time that the OP requested or agreed to a repair on day zero to the time that the car came back from attempted repair on 27 March.

If that were the case then the OP is still within the 30 day window to exercise the short term right to reject, the significance of that being that the trader could not charge anything for the use of the vehicle.

I would agree.

The trader cannot apply a deduction for use where the consumer exercises the short term right to reject, only the final right to reject i.e. after the 30 day window. This is made clear under s24(10) since it only refers to a final right to reject, not short term. 

m0bov

To reject it's just that, take car back and leave keys there.

Okell

A_Geordie said:

Okell said:

My question was whether – under s22(6), (7) and (8) of the CRA – the 30 day window for the exercise of the short term right to repair was paused from the time that the OP requested or agreed to a repair on day zero to the time that the car came back from attempted repair on 27 March.

If that were the case then the OP is still within the 30 day window to exercise the short term right to reject, the significance of that being that the trader could not charge anything for the use of the vehicle.

I would agree.

The trader cannot apply a deduction for use where the consumer exercises the short term right to reject, only the final right to reject i.e. after the 30 day window. This is made clear under s24(10) since it only refers to a final right to reject, not short term. 

I understand that you agree that no charge for use can be made if the consumer exercises their short term right to reject, but do you think that the 30 day window was paused between 18 October 2024( day zero for the purposes of the short term right to reject) and 27 March 2025?

A_Geordie

Okell said:

I understand that you agree that no charge for use can be made if the consumer exercises their short term right to reject, but do you think that the 30 day window was paused between 18 October 2024( day zero for the purposes of the short term right to reject) and 27 March 2025?

I would also agree with that interpretation. The CRA only defines when the clock is paused and when it restarts and it matters not how long the waiting period is since there is no longstop date, although technically it would be 6 years based on the limitation period for breach of contract. If the OP gave notice of a requested repair on the same day as collection, the clock would be 30 days from the 27 March since the 30 day period begins on the day after goods have been received.

Jenni_D

If you request/agree to a repair, have you voided your Initial/Short-term Right to Reject?

DullGreyGuy

Jenni_D said:

If you request/agree to a repair, have you voided your Initial/Short-term Right to Reject?

No, it stops the clock, the clock restarts after the repair is done and if there was less than 7 days left on the clock it's extended to be 7 days. 

The problem is that the OP has had 7 repair attempts and there is no clear steer from the CRA on how to deal with partial repairs or failed repairs etc plus it appears some repairs may have fixed one problem only to introduce a new one.  Hence asking the OP for a clear timeline without emotive bits because its difficult to work out if the clock has run out or if they still have X days left.