short term right to reject on a used car - Issues since day 1

julesw1lko

born_again said:

TBH. 4year old car, not sure tyre & trim failing would be a valid reason to reject.
Tyre should have been picked up on collection. Which you would refuse to drive away with given a egg on the sidewall. That puts it in the unsafe to drive range. Should have been sorted there & then.

If you drove away, then they can argue that it was caused by you..

Front bumper you only picked up later. How much later though.

Bumper I didn't pick up on till January when a bulb failed in the fog lamp. 

The sidewall fault was highlighted to the salesman and manager at collection. 

(Which was the "how'd this pass a 204 point inspection" question). 

born_again

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

TBH. 4year old car, not sure tyre & trim failing would be a valid reason to reject.
Tyre should have been picked up on collection. Which you would refuse to drive away with given a egg on the sidewall. That puts it in the unsafe to drive range. Should have been sorted there & then.

If you drove away, then they can argue that it was caused by you..

Front bumper you only picked up later. How much later though.

Bumper I didn't pick up on till January when a bulb failed in the fog lamp. 

The sidewall fault was highlighted to the salesman and manager at collection. 

(Which was the "how'd this pass a 204 point inspection" question). 

So was that not fixed there & then?

julesw1lko

born_again said:

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

TBH. 4year old car, not sure tyre & trim failing would be a valid reason to reject.
Tyre should have been picked up on collection. Which you would refuse to drive away with given a egg on the sidewall. That puts it in the unsafe to drive range. Should have been sorted there & then.

If you drove away, then they can argue that it was caused by you..

Front bumper you only picked up later. How much later though.

Bumper I didn't pick up on till January when a bulb failed in the fog lamp. 

The sidewall fault was highlighted to the salesman and manager at collection. 

(Which was the "how'd this pass a 204 point inspection" question). 

So was that not fixed there & then?

No it wasn't - We had to return a week later.

eskbanker

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

TBH. 4year old car, not sure tyre & trim failing would be a valid reason to reject.
Tyre should have been picked up on collection. Which you would refuse to drive away with given a egg on the sidewall. That puts it in the unsafe to drive range. Should have been sorted there & then.

If you drove away, then they can argue that it was caused by you..

Front bumper you only picked up later. How much later though.

Bumper I didn't pick up on till January when a bulb failed in the fog lamp. 

The sidewall fault was highlighted to the salesman and manager at collection. 

(Which was the "how'd this pass a 204 point inspection" question). 

So was that not fixed there & then?

No it wasn't - We had to return a week later.

You spotted a serious safety issue but still chose to drive away with it in that condition? 😮

julesw1lko

eskbanker said:

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

TBH. 4year old car, not sure tyre & trim failing would be a valid reason to reject.
Tyre should have been picked up on collection. Which you would refuse to drive away with given a egg on the sidewall. That puts it in the unsafe to drive range. Should have been sorted there & then.

If you drove away, then they can argue that it was caused by you..

Front bumper you only picked up later. How much later though.

Bumper I didn't pick up on till January when a bulb failed in the fog lamp. 

The sidewall fault was highlighted to the salesman and manager at collection. 

(Which was the "how'd this pass a 204 point inspection" question). 

So was that not fixed there & then?

No it wasn't - We had to return a week later.

You spotted a serious safety issue but still chose to drive away with it in that condition? 😮

At that point, we hadn't a choice.
We were up the creek. 
We'd paid the deposit. 
Waited a week for Carsa to do their 201 point pre delivery inspections. 
Turned up at the agreed time... and then waited a further 4 hours... school and nursery pick up looming (and we dont have grandparents to fall back on). 

ian16527

julesw1lko said:

DullGreyGuy said:

julesw1lko said:

pinkshoes said:

julesw1lko said:

Okell said:

So, for claity, are you saying:

1.  You requested or agreed to a repair on the same day that you took delivery of the vehicle on 18 October 2024?

2.  That because of inaction on the part of the trader that the vehicle never actually went in for those repairs (requested on 18 October 2024) until 05 March 2025?

3.  That you got the car back from those repairs on 27 March 2025 and it still wasn't fixed?

4.  That you rejected the car that same day, 27 March 2025?

Heya Okell,
Yep. 
Pretty much sums it up. 
And that the reply about the rejection came on the 16th of April.
(I asked about the ADR on the 18th April, no reply)

julesw1lko said:
In the 6 months, we've done about 3500 miles. 
A few hundred of those going back and forth to Carsa.

Ok, so although LEGALLY you can reject it as the one opportunity to repair has failed, the issue you have is that you have clearly USED the car, which they are LEGALLY entitled to charge you mileage for.

If the car was not roadworthy, you would have not been driving it, then could have got a full refund. 

How many of the 3500 miles were done taking the car to the dealer and back? If it was perhaps 200 miles, then it's only fair you pay for the miles you have driven. 

If you don't feel the 45p/mile is acceptable, then pay them what you think is fair (with evidence - find examples of what people would normally pay for mileage), then if they want to claim the rest they can take you to court. 

HMRC mileage is 45p/mile.

Perhaps look at the loss of equity in the car due to the additional mileage on the clock and offer to pay that if it's less? e.g. if you bought it for £12,000 and it's now worth £11,000 then pay them £1000. 

The cost of petrol alone per mile is 13p to 23p depending on the car efficiency. Then there's the additional wear and tear on the car for 3500 miles. 

First point - Carsa has had 7 opportunities to repair the faults with the car.
Just one was when they had the car for a month. 

If Carsa hadn't taken 6 months to not fix things, we wouldn't have clocked up 3000 odd miles. 

As to finding examples of mileage charges... You can find lease hire / PCP or whatever - but nothing about what a dealer paid up - So far, at least.

We've asked for an ADR - No reply yet - as they said 45p was final offer - no negotiation. Only 35p for an exchange. 

It would be helpful to have a clear timeline starting from the day the car was first given to you to today but excluding any "chasers" or "I called 27 times in a day" that add noise and dont impact your statutory rights. In particular with each initial call to them (either after delivery or a repair attempt) what you were asking them in terms of repair or reject. 

Your text so far makes it unclear if the "7 opportunities" if those have been failed repair attempts, you've turned up and they've turned you away or other things. 

7 events were - 

Tyre replacement. 
Windscreen trim attempt 1 (when they agreed a date for the trim, we turned up, and the trim wasnt there) Windscreen trim attempt 2 (when they did fit the trim that was supposed to be there on the first one)
Windscreen trim attempt 3 (because it fell off after it not being fitted right on attempt 2).
Then electrical faults were looked at along with the windscreen trim times, and also when they were looked at independently, and then another time they came to the house. 

I can get the dates off my wife as she was the one who wasted her 5 days holiday. 

Always at arranged times, rather than just random appearances. 
I turned up there randomly in my own car during my working day because I couldn't get an answer from email and phone to confirm appointments. 

and the 7th was when they had the car for March. 
In which they created a new electrical fault and failed to address the headlining falling out (as they said they were going to get a trim / headling person in - but they say, let them down... for a month... and there must only be one car trim fitter in Bolton!)

Every time it was a repair to address the day 1 faults. 

And indeed, the faults like the front bumper being glued (I foolishly was just like "!!!!!!" and ordered the bits off ebay, but did take photos of the glued clips).
But indeed, all make a mockery of Carsa's pre delivery checks.

https://www.carsa.co.uk/terms-and-conditions-for-the-supply-and-purchase-of-vehicles?srsltid=AfmBOoonh_TEojQ_-oe_CzEhsLA3e5HV2R77qyMVipaZlSwokvPia5iw

YOUR VEHICLE

3.1 Prior to delivery or collection, the Vehicle will have undergone a 204-point mechanical and specification inspection as part of our preparation of the Vehicle for sale. The Vehicle will also have an MOT.

Did your car have a full MOT with the tyre bulge? I thought it woud fail the MOT with that problem.

When you got the loan from your bank did you specify on their form it was for a car loan.
A colleague where I used to work rejected his car via the bank as it was a specified car loan. 

eskbanker

julesw1lko said:

eskbanker said:

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

TBH. 4year old car, not sure tyre & trim failing would be a valid reason to reject.
Tyre should have been picked up on collection. Which you would refuse to drive away with given a egg on the sidewall. That puts it in the unsafe to drive range. Should have been sorted there & then.

If you drove away, then they can argue that it was caused by you..

Front bumper you only picked up later. How much later though.

Bumper I didn't pick up on till January when a bulb failed in the fog lamp. 

The sidewall fault was highlighted to the salesman and manager at collection. 

(Which was the "how'd this pass a 204 point inspection" question). 

So was that not fixed there & then?

No it wasn't - We had to return a week later.

You spotted a serious safety issue but still chose to drive away with it in that condition? 😮

At that point, we hadn't a choice.
We were up the creek. 
We'd paid the deposit. 
Waited a week for Carsa to do their 201 point pre delivery inspections. 
Turned up at the agreed time... and then waited a further 4 hours... school and nursery pick up looming (and we dont have grandparents to fall back on). 

Sure, I have no doubt that it wasn't an easy situation to be in, but two wrongs don't make a right, in that it sounds like the car was unroadworthy, and so by driving it away, you'd have been committing driving offences - the fact that you'd been let down by the vendor would be no defence if stopped by the police or involved in an accident.  Anyway, what's done is done, but failures by a car dealer can't excuse dangerous driving....

julesw1lko

ian16527 said:

julesw1lko said:

DullGreyGuy said:

julesw1lko said:

pinkshoes said:

julesw1lko said:

Okell said:

So, for claity, are you saying:

1.  You requested or agreed to a repair on the same day that you took delivery of the vehicle on 18 October 2024?

2.  That because of inaction on the part of the trader that the vehicle never actually went in for those repairs (requested on 18 October 2024) until 05 March 2025?

3.  That you got the car back from those repairs on 27 March 2025 and it still wasn't fixed?

4.  That you rejected the car that same day, 27 March 2025?

Heya Okell,
Yep. 
Pretty much sums it up. 
And that the reply about the rejection came on the 16th of April.
(I asked about the ADR on the 18th April, no reply)

julesw1lko said:
In the 6 months, we've done about 3500 miles. 
A few hundred of those going back and forth to Carsa.

Ok, so although LEGALLY you can reject it as the one opportunity to repair has failed, the issue you have is that you have clearly USED the car, which they are LEGALLY entitled to charge you mileage for.

If the car was not roadworthy, you would have not been driving it, then could have got a full refund. 

How many of the 3500 miles were done taking the car to the dealer and back? If it was perhaps 200 miles, then it's only fair you pay for the miles you have driven. 

If you don't feel the 45p/mile is acceptable, then pay them what you think is fair (with evidence - find examples of what people would normally pay for mileage), then if they want to claim the rest they can take you to court. 

HMRC mileage is 45p/mile.

Perhaps look at the loss of equity in the car due to the additional mileage on the clock and offer to pay that if it's less? e.g. if you bought it for £12,000 and it's now worth £11,000 then pay them £1000. 

The cost of petrol alone per mile is 13p to 23p depending on the car efficiency. Then there's the additional wear and tear on the car for 3500 miles. 

First point - Carsa has had 7 opportunities to repair the faults with the car.
Just one was when they had the car for a month. 

If Carsa hadn't taken 6 months to not fix things, we wouldn't have clocked up 3000 odd miles. 

As to finding examples of mileage charges... You can find lease hire / PCP or whatever - but nothing about what a dealer paid up - So far, at least.

We've asked for an ADR - No reply yet - as they said 45p was final offer - no negotiation. Only 35p for an exchange. 

It would be helpful to have a clear timeline starting from the day the car was first given to you to today but excluding any "chasers" or "I called 27 times in a day" that add noise and dont impact your statutory rights. In particular with each initial call to them (either after delivery or a repair attempt) what you were asking them in terms of repair or reject. 

Your text so far makes it unclear if the "7 opportunities" if those have been failed repair attempts, you've turned up and they've turned you away or other things. 

7 events were - 

Tyre replacement. 
Windscreen trim attempt 1 (when they agreed a date for the trim, we turned up, and the trim wasnt there) Windscreen trim attempt 2 (when they did fit the trim that was supposed to be there on the first one)
Windscreen trim attempt 3 (because it fell off after it not being fitted right on attempt 2).
Then electrical faults were looked at along with the windscreen trim times, and also when they were looked at independently, and then another time they came to the house. 

I can get the dates off my wife as she was the one who wasted her 5 days holiday. 

Always at arranged times, rather than just random appearances. 
I turned up there randomly in my own car during my working day because I couldn't get an answer from email and phone to confirm appointments. 

and the 7th was when they had the car for March. 
In which they created a new electrical fault and failed to address the headlining falling out (as they said they were going to get a trim / headling person in - but they say, let them down... for a month... and there must only be one car trim fitter in Bolton!)

Every time it was a repair to address the day 1 faults. 

And indeed, the faults like the front bumper being glued (I foolishly was just like "!!!!!!" and ordered the bits off ebay, but did take photos of the glued clips).
But indeed, all make a mockery of Carsa's pre delivery checks.

https://www.carsa.co.uk/terms-and-conditions-for-the-supply-and-purchase-of-vehicles?srsltid=AfmBOoonh_TEojQ_-oe_CzEhsLA3e5HV2R77qyMVipaZlSwokvPia5iw

YOUR VEHICLE

3.1 Prior to delivery or collection, the Vehicle will have undergone a 204-point mechanical and specification inspection as part of our preparation of the Vehicle for sale. The Vehicle will also have an MOT.

Did your car have a full MOT with the tyre bulge? I thought it woud fail the MOT with that problem.

When you got the loan from your bank did you specify on their form it was for a car loan.
A colleague where I used to work rejected his car via the bank as it was a specified car loan. 

Yeah... We were told it had a 12 month MOT.  (turns out, it didnt). 

I guess the rejection from the bank means what, Carsa and the bank have to fight it out? 

TheSpectator

julesw1lko said:

ian16527 said:

julesw1lko said:

DullGreyGuy said:

julesw1lko said:

pinkshoes said:

julesw1lko said:

Okell said:

So, for claity, are you saying:

1.  You requested or agreed to a repair on the same day that you took delivery of the vehicle on 18 October 2024?

2.  That because of inaction on the part of the trader that the vehicle never actually went in for those repairs (requested on 18 October 2024) until 05 March 2025?

3.  That you got the car back from those repairs on 27 March 2025 and it still wasn't fixed?

4.  That you rejected the car that same day, 27 March 2025?

Heya Okell,
Yep. 
Pretty much sums it up. 
And that the reply about the rejection came on the 16th of April.
(I asked about the ADR on the 18th April, no reply)

julesw1lko said:
In the 6 months, we've done about 3500 miles. 
A few hundred of those going back and forth to Carsa.

Ok, so although LEGALLY you can reject it as the one opportunity to repair has failed, the issue you have is that you have clearly USED the car, which they are LEGALLY entitled to charge you mileage for.

If the car was not roadworthy, you would have not been driving it, then could have got a full refund. 

How many of the 3500 miles were done taking the car to the dealer and back? If it was perhaps 200 miles, then it's only fair you pay for the miles you have driven. 

If you don't feel the 45p/mile is acceptable, then pay them what you think is fair (with evidence - find examples of what people would normally pay for mileage), then if they want to claim the rest they can take you to court. 

HMRC mileage is 45p/mile.

Perhaps look at the loss of equity in the car due to the additional mileage on the clock and offer to pay that if it's less? e.g. if you bought it for £12,000 and it's now worth £11,000 then pay them £1000. 

The cost of petrol alone per mile is 13p to 23p depending on the car efficiency. Then there's the additional wear and tear on the car for 3500 miles. 

First point - Carsa has had 7 opportunities to repair the faults with the car.
Just one was when they had the car for a month. 

If Carsa hadn't taken 6 months to not fix things, we wouldn't have clocked up 3000 odd miles. 

As to finding examples of mileage charges... You can find lease hire / PCP or whatever - but nothing about what a dealer paid up - So far, at least.

We've asked for an ADR - No reply yet - as they said 45p was final offer - no negotiation. Only 35p for an exchange. 

It would be helpful to have a clear timeline starting from the day the car was first given to you to today but excluding any "chasers" or "I called 27 times in a day" that add noise and dont impact your statutory rights. In particular with each initial call to them (either after delivery or a repair attempt) what you were asking them in terms of repair or reject. 

Your text so far makes it unclear if the "7 opportunities" if those have been failed repair attempts, you've turned up and they've turned you away or other things. 

7 events were - 

Tyre replacement. 
Windscreen trim attempt 1 (when they agreed a date for the trim, we turned up, and the trim wasnt there) Windscreen trim attempt 2 (when they did fit the trim that was supposed to be there on the first one)
Windscreen trim attempt 3 (because it fell off after it not being fitted right on attempt 2).
Then electrical faults were looked at along with the windscreen trim times, and also when they were looked at independently, and then another time they came to the house. 

I can get the dates off my wife as she was the one who wasted her 5 days holiday. 

Always at arranged times, rather than just random appearances. 
I turned up there randomly in my own car during my working day because I couldn't get an answer from email and phone to confirm appointments. 

and the 7th was when they had the car for March. 
In which they created a new electrical fault and failed to address the headlining falling out (as they said they were going to get a trim / headling person in - but they say, let them down... for a month... and there must only be one car trim fitter in Bolton!)

Every time it was a repair to address the day 1 faults. 

And indeed, the faults like the front bumper being glued (I foolishly was just like "!!!!!!" and ordered the bits off ebay, but did take photos of the glued clips).
But indeed, all make a mockery of Carsa's pre delivery checks.

https://www.carsa.co.uk/terms-and-conditions-for-the-supply-and-purchase-of-vehicles?srsltid=AfmBOoonh_TEojQ_-oe_CzEhsLA3e5HV2R77qyMVipaZlSwokvPia5iw

YOUR VEHICLE

3.1 Prior to delivery or collection, the Vehicle will have undergone a 204-point mechanical and specification inspection as part of our preparation of the Vehicle for sale. The Vehicle will also have an MOT.

Did your car have a full MOT with the tyre bulge? I thought it woud fail the MOT with that problem.

When you got the loan from your bank did you specify on their form it was for a car loan.
A colleague where I used to work rejected his car via the bank as it was a specified car loan. 

Yeah... We were told it had a 12 month MOT.  (turns out, it didnt). 

I guess the rejection from the bank means what, Carsa and the bank have to fight it out? 

I think the car loan might be a red herring for you...some banks will effectively provide finance on a car

julesw1lko

eskbanker said:

julesw1lko said:

eskbanker said:

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

julesw1lko said:

born_again said:

TBH. 4year old car, not sure tyre & trim failing would be a valid reason to reject.
Tyre should have been picked up on collection. Which you would refuse to drive away with given a egg on the sidewall. That puts it in the unsafe to drive range. Should have been sorted there & then.

If you drove away, then they can argue that it was caused by you..

Front bumper you only picked up later. How much later though.

Bumper I didn't pick up on till January when a bulb failed in the fog lamp. 

The sidewall fault was highlighted to the salesman and manager at collection. 

(Which was the "how'd this pass a 204 point inspection" question). 

So was that not fixed there & then?

No it wasn't - We had to return a week later.

You spotted a serious safety issue but still chose to drive away with it in that condition? 😮

At that point, we hadn't a choice.
We were up the creek. 
We'd paid the deposit. 
Waited a week for Carsa to do their 201 point pre delivery inspections. 
Turned up at the agreed time... and then waited a further 4 hours... school and nursery pick up looming (and we dont have grandparents to fall back on). 

Sure, I have no doubt that it wasn't an easy situation to be in, but two wrongs don't make a right, in that it sounds like the car was unroadworthy, and so by driving it away, you'd have been committing driving offences - the fact that you'd been let down by the vendor would be no defence if stopped by the police or involved in an accident.  Anyway, what's done is done, but failures by a car dealer can't excuse dangerous driving....

Calculated risk with altered driving. 

It's something I'm saving for my online reviews, as I have held off doing so until this was resolved.