Plain English guidance on probate next steps

Cobbler_tone

We lost our dear mother (M-I-L) on NYD. I think we may end up paying the Co-op a couple of thousand to deal with probate but the more I read the more I think it can be done DIY for a few hundred. We have faced the difficult part of unravelling her financial affairs.
Our father is self sufficient and more than comfortable financially. He has been doing amazingly well all round.
They are tenants in common and the trustees are the children as part of a living trust. We didn't know they had done this until she was poorly.

Her bank accounts are six figures and definitely need probate, left to children in will and below any IHT thresholds.

The current view I am taking is that probate is needed for the accounts but not the property but TBH I find the trust confusing.

Would there be any action to take in terms of the Trust now she has passed away? This is the action we don't want to miss if something needs to happen from an administrative perspective. The plan is for our father in stay in the property and would face the need for care if it ever presents itself.

Brie

Not sure why the regular knowledgeable types haven't responded but as I understand it probate can be DIYd fairly easily.

What happens with a trust is well beyond me.  So if no one else comes back to give you an opinion I'd suggest you ring a local solicitor who knows about trusts and ask to have a chat.  It might be something that can be discussed sufficiently in a free half/hour session.   

poseidon1

Suggest you have a read of the very recent threads below.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81389592#Comment_81389592

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81392452#Comment_81392452

If you see parallels in those threads with regard to the trust the family have been lumbered with, then supply a redacted copy of the relevant trust document ( see  the '' Any CGT/IHT"  thread in terms of what would be helpful ) and perhaps we can then provide a more inform view of an appropriate course of action going forward.

In passing, your mother's half share of the property that passed into the Trust must be disclosed for probate purposes, and will eventually need to be reported to HMRC for entry on their Trust Register within 2 years of death ( penalties can arise for non compliance). Therefore, in short there are most certainly trust administrative and compliance matters to deal with.

As a matter of interest you state the children did not know about the trust but have been named as trustees. Are the children currently on the land register as  legal owners of the property  which is implicit from their trusteeship?

Keep_pedalling

They can’t be tenants in common if the house has been placed in trust. Can you confirm that that we are talking about a trust they set up prior to her death or whether this was created by her will?

Assuming the former would half the house value take her estate above £325k? Who are the trustees?

Marcon

Cobbler_tone said:

We lost our dear mother (M-I-L) on NYD. I think we may end up paying the Co-op a couple of thousand to deal with probate but the more I read the more I think it can be done DIY for a few hundred. We have faced the difficult part of unravelling her financial affairs.
Our father is self sufficient and more than comfortable financially. He has been doing amazingly well all round.
They are tenants in common and the trustees are the children as part of a living trust. We didn't know they had done this until she was poorly.

Her bank accounts are six figures and definitely need probate, left to children in will and below any IHT thresholds.

The current view I am taking is that probate is needed for the accounts but not the property but TBH I find the trust confusing.

Would there be any action to take in terms of the Trust now she has passed away? This is the action we don't want to miss if something needs to happen from an administrative perspective. The plan is for our father in stay in the property and would face the need for care if it ever presents itself.

Get some proper legal advice - this could get (needlessly) messy. Without seeing the full trust document and understanding what exactly has or hasn't happened, it would be unsafe to rely on any 'advice' given on this forum or any other (and always remember that nobody here is insured to give you 'advice').

Cobbler_tone

Marcon said:

Cobbler_tone said:

We lost our dear mother (M-I-L) on NYD. I think we may end up paying the Co-op a couple of thousand to deal with probate but the more I read the more I think it can be done DIY for a few hundred. We have faced the difficult part of unravelling her financial affairs.
Our father is self sufficient and more than comfortable financially. He has been doing amazingly well all round.
They are tenants in common and the trustees are the children as part of a living trust. We didn't know they had done this until she was poorly.

Her bank accounts are six figures and definitely need probate, left to children in will and below any IHT thresholds.

The current view I am taking is that probate is needed for the accounts but not the property but TBH I find the trust confusing.

Would there be any action to take in terms of the Trust now she has passed away? This is the action we don't want to miss if something needs to happen from an administrative perspective. The plan is for our father in stay in the property and would face the need for care if it ever presents itself.

Get some proper legal advice - this could get (needlessly) messy. Without seeing the full trust document and understanding what exactly has or hasn't happened, it would be unsafe to rely on any 'advice' given on this forum or any other (and always remember that nobody here is insured to give you 'advice').

Sensible advice as always Marcon. I was asking in case there was an easy answer.
TBH my OH is still struggling with grief and the practicalities of clearing her mum's personal effects, arranging a bench for her etc. For the sake of a couple of grand it makes more sense to ask the Co-op to sort things out, regardless of how simple/complicated it is. The family have done one of the more challenging aspects of communicating and tracing her multiple accounts down, which was an emotional process in itself.
The practicalities are that Dad will continue to live in the house and nothing changes (or is planned to change) in that respect. He is doing OK which is the main thing.

Thanks to those who replied.

Keep_pedalling

If the house is in trust then he should be looking a a STEP solicitor not the Co-op. Unfortunately putting your house in trust complicates things significantly, and what should have been a simple process no longer is.

Cobbler_tone

Keep_pedalling said:

If the house is in trust then he should be looking a a STEP solicitor not the Co-op. Unfortunately putting your house in trust complicates things significantly, and what should have been a simple process no longer is.

As the will was generated by the Co-op and where the trust is mentioned, they will be the first port of call. There is a call booked to discuss (probate/house etc) and my OH is extremely organised and armed with questions. Even the passing of monies as my F-I-L suggested a joint account to pass over, which we suggested nothing happens until advice is taken. We'll do whatever is required to uncomplicate things and both intelligent people, so if we are not clear we will ask. The Co-op drafted it and have STEP solicitors.

Keep_pedalling

Cobbler_tone said:

Keep_pedalling said:

If the house is in trust then he should be looking a a STEP solicitor not the Co-op. Unfortunately putting your house in trust complicates things significantly, and what should have been a simple process no longer is.

As the will was generated by the Co-op and where the trust is mentioned, they will be the first port of call. There is a call booked to discuss (probate/house etc) and my OH is extremely organised and armed with questions. Even the passing of monies as my F-I-L suggested a joint account to pass over, which we suggested nothing happens until advice is taken. We'll do whatever is required to uncomplicate things and both intelligent people, so if we are not clear we will ask. The Co-op drafted it and have STEP solicitors.

I did ask before, but are we talking about a trust created by the will giving her spouse a life interest via an immediate post death interest trust or is it a living trust as you stated in your opening post? These are very different things and hopefully it is the former which is far less complex and is tax efficiency. 

poseidon1

Cobbler_tone said:

Marcon said:

Cobbler_tone said:

We lost our dear mother (M-I-L) on NYD. I think we may end up paying the Co-op a couple of thousand to deal with probate but the more I read the more I think it can be done DIY for a few hundred. We have faced the difficult part of unravelling her financial affairs.
Our father is self sufficient and more than comfortable financially. He has been doing amazingly well all round.
They are tenants in common and the trustees are the children as part of a living trust. We didn't know they had done this until she was poorly.

Her bank accounts are six figures and definitely need probate, left to children in will and below any IHT thresholds.

The current view I am taking is that probate is needed for the accounts but not the property but TBH I find the trust confusing.

Would there be any action to take in terms of the Trust now she has passed away? This is the action we don't want to miss if something needs to happen from an administrative perspective. The plan is for our father in stay in the property and would face the need for care if it ever presents itself.

Get some proper legal advice - this could get (needlessly) messy. Without seeing the full trust document and understanding what exactly has or hasn't happened, it would be unsafe to rely on any 'advice' given on this forum or any other (and always remember that nobody here is insured to give you 'advice').

Sensible advice as always Marcon. I was asking in case there was an easy answer.
TBH my OH is still struggling with grief and the practicalities of clearing her mum's personal effects, arranging a bench for her etc. For the sake of a couple of grand it makes more sense to ask the Co-op to sort things out, regardless of how simple/complicated it is. The family have done one of the more challenging aspects of communicating and tracing her multiple accounts down, which was an emotional process in itself.
The practicalities are that Dad will continue to live in the house and nothing changes (or is planned to change) in that respect. He is doing OK which is the main thing.

Thanks to those who replied.

Can I suggest you look at my recent post to the thread below.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6600203/property-probate-trust-nightmare#latest

 The tax and administration outcomes in the case of that trust are truly horrendous. Your OH has to ensure her mother's will trust is a simple IPDI as indicated by Keep_pedalling in his recent post and does not in anyway resemble the trust in the above thread.

Seeing an example of some of these care home fees avoidance trusts  being touted by will writing firms, it is clear they can cause considerable  financial harm and distress for  the surviving families.

Cobbler_tone

Keep_pedalling said:

Cobbler_tone said:

Keep_pedalling said:

If the house is in trust then he should be looking a a STEP solicitor not the Co-op. Unfortunately putting your house in trust complicates things significantly, and what should have been a simple process no longer is.

As the will was generated by the Co-op and where the trust is mentioned, they will be the first port of call. There is a call booked to discuss (probate/house etc) and my OH is extremely organised and armed with questions. Even the passing of monies as my F-I-L suggested a joint account to pass over, which we suggested nothing happens until advice is taken. We'll do whatever is required to uncomplicate things and both intelligent people, so if we are not clear we will ask. The Co-op drafted it and have STEP solicitors.

I did ask before, but are we talking about a trust created by the will giving her spouse a life interest via an immediate post death interest trust or is it a living trust as you stated in your opening post? These are very different things and hopefully it is the former which is far less complex and is tax efficiency. 

We are not sure, hence why getting the experts to help us understand matters and take the appropriate action. It is to ensure that (at least) half of the house is left to the children, or at least that was their intention. It would have been the Co-op rocking up at the WI meeting, so who knows what they signed up for.

I am sure after taking the appropriate advice and appropriate action it will be resolved. What I’ve learnt is that it sounds potentially complicated enough not to try and self serve, especially when grieving and trying to minimise adding unnecessary stress. TBH the financial side has been the least of our worries, hence why it has been over three months before we have tried stepping up to the inevitable act of sorting the affairs out.