What's going on under my sink? (Sorted!)

Albermarle

 find this type of locking adjustable wrench useful in many situations if your are looking to buy one.

Stanley Curved Jaw Locking Pliers 9" (225mm) - Screwfix

oooh I like the look of this, I just googled how it works, I'll check out when I go to screwfix on Saturday. Thank you.

Just for the record, I was not particularly recommending this specific one. It was just an example.
If you google Mole Wrench, you will see many different types and price points.

Jemma01

WIAWSNB said:

Jemma01 said:

This is the one I have, it fits both the blue and the green arrows in @Section62 's picture, so I need another one to hold the other side. I'm still building my tool box, not had my house for long. That adjustable spanner is perfect - yes, another one of these would do nicely.
I'll check with a plumber about the internal stopcock and its impact on my heat pump, I'll see if I can arrange for someone to have a look, I think it needs bleeding as well (looks ridiculously easy to do), I'm just unsure about turning it off and on as I imagine the pressure will drop; better to have someone watch me do it safely, then I'll replace the tap on my own. No, turning your main stopcock off for a few minutes will have no adverse affect on anything. Heating systems, like your Heat Pump, are sealed, and quite separate from the mains (drinking!) water. So, feel safe in turning your main stopcock off in order to check it's free-moving and works fine - chances are it will be. For the outside tap, you'll only need to isolate at the wee screwdriver-operated isolating valve circled in red.

I don't know anything about running a HeatPump, or how to 'bleed' them - unless you mean the radiators? But if this is remotely a 'user'-type task, then clearly you will be up to it. But read the instructions fully, and contact the manufacturer if in any doubt.

As for them being tight, my push ups and pull ups better come in handy !! 🤣🤣
 

Bits in bold.

That spanner is perfect. One wee hint in its use. See how the head is angled to the handle? That means you can slip it on to the flats of the nut in two ways, and the handle will point in a slightly different direction each way.

The tap will likely be quite tight. And you also don't want to apply too much turning force on the wallplate in case it's damaged where it's screwed to the wall. So, you need to keep the wallplate 'nut' steady, whilst aplying the unscrewing force on the tap itself. This is what I tend to do:

Stand next to the tap where it's comfy, and where you'll be able to operate the two spanners. Slip the spanners on to each nut, and trial them each way around until you end up with the two handles only slightly apart from eachother, but with the 'tap' one higher than the wallplate fellow.

The idea is to be able to wrap both hands around both spanner handles, and then you just squeeeeze them together - that will apply a lot of controlled torque to the joint. 

The other part of the trick is to brace your knee or thigh (or whatever height it's at) against the green handle, to help keep it from moving downwards, and to focus on squeezing the yellow handle downwards, whilst simply holding the greeny steady. You'll sense how to do this this as you do it - your fingers will keep the green spanner steady, and your thumbpads will be the part moving down on the yellow handle.

This will almost certainly work.

Another wee hint. You'll always want these adjustable spanners to be as snug a fit as possible on the nut flats - any looseness can risk it rounding the flat corners or even slipping (brass is relatively soft). Once you've figured out the best fitting angle for the spanners, then slip them on and 'rock' them slightly up and down whilst also turning the thumb-tightener. This will usually get the jaws that wee extra bit more snug against the flats, and you'll notice the 'rocking' will reduse as this occurs - it'll pretty much stop rocking when it's 'tight'! Always a snug fit.

ooooh we have an artist, look at you😮!! Thank you so much, this looks much easier than the video versions of holding them opposite directions, that's very likely to slip out. Thank you, that's very thorough and thoughtful. I appreciate the drawing, nothing like a visual 🥹.

The water tank itself needs bleeding, I'll do that tomorrow very early morning, wait few hours, and then turn off the dishwasher and test the internal stopcock. Will also check the radiators while I'm at it.

@Section62, I will do, realistically I have no backup help, so the less I change the better (assuming it works, hard to know what the previous owner was doing and whether or not things leaked inside or outside, I'll find out the hard way tomorrow if it's not raining😅).

WIAWSNB

Jemma01 said:

ooooh we have an artist, look at you😮!! Thank you so much, this looks much easier than the video versions of holding them opposite directions, that's very likely to slip out. Thank you, that's very thorough and thoughtful. I appreciate the drawing, nothing like a visual 🥹.

The water tank itself needs bleeding, I'll do that tomorrow very early morning, wait few hours, and then turn off the dishwasher and test the internal stopcock. Will also check the radiators while I'm at it.

@Section62, I will do, realistically I have no backup help, so the less I change the better (assuming it works, hard to know what the previous owner was doing and whether or not things leaked inside or outside, I'll find out the hard way tomorrow if it's not raining😅).

Make sure you fully understand what this bleeding process involves - it's not something I'm familiar with. Do you have instructions provided with the tank?

Jemma01

Hi everyone, proud me here 😁

Thanks to everyone who's been very kind and patient with me, and thanks to both @WIAWSNBand @Section62 for the detailed instructions and illustrations, I'm incredibly grateful.

Unfortunately it doesn't fully close to the far end, I did many dry runs to see if any starting position would change where it stops, but the threads of both ends would only clip on one position, so I stuffed it with tape and called it a day 🤣

Tested the internal stopcock that's also working fine.

@WIAWSNB I called it tank, because your girl is clueless, but I think it's called a pump, I didn't have the right screwdriver for it, mine is so small it didn't do much, but all I needed is to release it a tiny bit, let the air out and once the water comes out close it back.



and then here is a happy tap 🥰

Section62

Jemma01 said:

Unfortunately it doesn't fully close to the far end, I did many dry runs to see if any starting position would change where it stops, but the threads of both ends would only clip on one position, so I stuffed it with tape and called it a day 🤣

Good result

Plumbing fittings are 'single thread' - which means there is only one spiral and one starting point.  Hence the suggestion the other day to have either fibre washers or PTFE tape ready on hand to bodge get the tap to tighten in the right position.

WIAWSNB

Nice result indeed.

You are actually moving too fast for us - I was expecting you to say, "I bought a tap!", and then we could guide you on how to fit it.

If your current job doesn't drip, and if the tap doesn't move - rotate - as you use it, then great - job done. If either of these things happen, then just undo the tap, and wrap numerous turns of PTFE tape all over the male thread, and re-insert. Screw it up until you approach the end point, and which point slow down and stop when vertical. You should know, from it's curent position - ie the tiny gap between the two parts - when this last turn is occurring. What you don't want to do is to screw it up all the way, and then back off the part-turn to get it vert.

If it's still a bit sloppy, redo with even more tape! Or perhaps there's a better sealant, like 'plumber's mate', out there?

FreeBear

Small suggestion. Get yourself one of these -> https://www.dunelm.com/product/stormguard-hard-shell-tap-cover-red-1000218629 - Pop it over the tap before it turns cold next winter, and it should stop the tap from freezing up.

Side note. There should really be a non-return valve between the outside tap and indoor plumbing. https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-single-check-valve-15mm/38236 - This stops dirty water from say a hosepipe being sucked in and contaminating the drinking water. Not essential, so it can wait until the kitchen gets a refit.

Oh, and one more thing. It would be a good idea to give the pipes under the sink a good scrub with a solution of baking soda (or bicarb of soda) and a scouring pad to get rid of the verdigris. Doesn't need to be shiny copper, just enough to get rid of most of the green gunk.

Jemma01

Section62 said:

Jemma01 said:

Unfortunately it doesn't fully close to the far end, I did many dry runs to see if any starting position would change where it stops, but the threads of both ends would only clip on one position, so I stuffed it with tape and called it a day 🤣

Good result

Plumbing fittings are 'single thread' - which means there is only one spiral and one starting point.  Hence the suggestion the other day to have either fibre washers or PTFE tape ready on hand to bodge get the tap to tighten in the right position.

Yeah I should have gotten the washer, I was hoping I'd get it to the far right and the tape would cover it. It is pretty snug now, I doubt it'll move much, but I'll def get one as and when I drop to Screwfix again.

WIAWSNB said:

Nice result indeed.

You are actually moving too fast for us - I was expecting you to say, "I bought a tap!", and then we could guide you on how to fit it.

If your current job doesn't drip, and if the tap doesn't move - rotate - as you use it, then great - job done. If either of these things happen, then just undo the tap, and wrap numerous turns of PTFE tape all over the male thread, and re-insert. Screw it up until you approach the end point, and which point slow down and stop when vertical. You should know, from it's curent position - ie the tiny gap between the two parts - when this last turn is occurring. What you don't want to do is to screw it up all the way, and then back off the part-turn to get it vert.

If it's still a bit sloppy, redo with even more tape! Or perhaps there's a better sealant, like 'plumber's mate', out there?

I was worried I'll hit a procrastination moment 😆 it took me months of courage and research to drill my first hole on the wall 🤣 and I managed to land them all on studs 💃.

It's pretty snug, I stuffed it with tape when I accepted my fate 😆, I can't see it dripping or moving easily, I know at the back of my head that it isn't as tight as it would have been. I'll get a washer on standby in case things change as I start to use it. The first time I taped it and undid it, I was shocked the tape vanished into thin air 😆, so I figured I didn't put enough.

FreeBear said:

Small suggestion. Get yourself one of these -> https://www.dunelm.com/product/stormguard-hard-shell-tap-cover-red-1000218629 - Pop it over the tap before it turns cold next winter, and it should stop the tap from freezing up.

Side note. There should really be a non-return valve between the outside tap and indoor plumbing. https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-single-check-valve-15mm/38236 - This stops dirty water from say a hosepipe being sucked in and contaminating the drinking water. Not essential, so it can wait until the kitchen gets a refit.

Oh, and one more thing. It would be a good idea to give the pipes under the sink a good scrub with a solution of baking soda (or bicarb of soda) and a scouring pad to get rid of the verdigris. Doesn't need to be shiny copper, just enough to get rid of most of the green gunk.

Thanks lovely, I appreciate your input. For the freezing part, I was thinking of closing the isolator when I'm done with the summer activities and emptying the water out. Would I still have further concerns?

The tap I bought came with double check valve, both ends had a white plastic looking stoppers (sorry for poor explanation! But this is the one)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/essentials-outside-tap-with-double-check-valve-15mm-x-1-2-/37241

I knowww the pipes look absolutely grim, I'll give them a scrub, I only noticed how awful when I got my head inside and started looking 😆.

FreeBear

Jemma01 said: For the freezing part, I was thinking of closing the isolator when I'm done with the summer activities and emptying the water out. Would I still have further concerns?

The tap I bought came with double check valve, both ends had a white plastic looking stoppers (sorry for poor explanation! But this is the one)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/essentials-outside-tap-with-double-check-valve-15mm-x-1-2-/37241

I knowww the pipes look absolutely grim, I'll give them a scrub, I only noticed how awful when I got my head inside and started looking 😆.

Shutting off the isolation valve should be fine. I have an outside tap (no isolator valve), and don't bother with any cover. Has been fine for 20+ years. However, the hosepipes haven't lasted as well.

The green gunk on the copper pipes is probably down to excess flux being used when the fittings were soldered up. Plumber's flux is acidic, so will slowly corrode the copper and could eventually cause leaks. Baking soda & bicarb of soda are alkali and should neutralise any acidic deposits.

WIAWSNB

Jemma01 said:

I'll get a washer on standby in case things change as I start to use it. The first time I taped it and undid it, I was shocked the tape vanished into thin air 😆, so I figured I didn't put enough. Yes, the PTFE tape will squish right up to fill any thread gaps. If you fit enough wraps, then it'll also bunch up at the end and form the 'washer' you are looking for to fill that wee gap. That last turn or two of the tap should feel nicely firmish against the building layer of PTFE.

Thanks lovely, I appreciate your input. For the freezing part, I was thinking of closing the isolator when I'm done with the summer activities and emptying the water out. Would I still have further concerns? No, that should do it - close the isolator, and fully open the tap and let it drain; your tap is mounted lower than the supply pipe coming through the wall, so it should drain empty and be completely fine. (By 'fully open', always treat 'washer' (multi-turn) taps like this as you would the mains stopock - they operate in the same way. So, if they are ever left in a fully open position for any length of time, then re-close it one turn from fully-open. The screw bits inside are prone to seizing if left tightly open.)

The tap I bought came with double check valve, both ends had a white plastic looking stoppers (sorry for poor explanation! But this is the one)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/essentials-outside-tap-with-double-check-valve-15mm-x-1-2-/37241 Once again you are ahead of the curve!

Bits in bold.