What's going on under my sink? (Sorted!)

silvercar

Looking at your first picture, and it may just be the angle, is there  a t-junction in the cold mains water pipe that goes into the wall? Looks to be covered in expanding foam where it exits? If so, that may be the external tap, or it may be something else.

WIAWSNB

Albermarle said:

Maybe a stupid question but here goes.
I have one of these isolators on a radiator feed pipe. You can turn it with a screwdriver right round 360 degrees and many times ( like if you were screwing it in or out) .
Is this normal, or should it just turn 90 degrees from on to off and vice versa ?

Inside the valve body is a stainless steel ball with a hole drilled through it, and sleeved in a tight-fitting nylon case. When you turn the screw slot until it is aligned with the pipe direction, that hole is also in line, and allows water to pass through.

As MeteredOut says, a partial turn will therefore expose part of that hole, so allow a part flow. A 90 degree turn will have the hole at right angles to the flow, so fully sealed off - ergo no flow.

There is nothing to prevent the ball from being rotated, in either direction, until the cows come home - the on/off cycle just repeats itself. 

The blue-handled valves are effectively the same items - a wee holy ball inside - except the handle itself has a 'stop' on it, thereby preventing it from being rotated beyond 90 degrees. So, the blue-handled versions are a quarter-turn only, back and forth, whereas the screw-slot types are fill yer booties - turn it any which way.

WIAWSNB

silvercar said:

Looking at your first picture, and it may just be the angle, is there  a t-junction in the cold mains water pipe that goes into the wall? Looks to be covered in expanding foam where it exits? If so, that may be the external tap, or it may be something else.

Almost certainly that teed-off cold supply serves the rest of the house; there is a similar hot coming through nearby from the house (boiler/tank) to the kitchen tap.

The red circled valve is for the outside tap, and I'll eat my non-existent hat if that ain't the case.

RavingMad

Might want to turn off the feed to the dishwasher if it's not in use. 

Jemma01

Section62 said:

Jemma01 said:

Section62 thanks again, you just got me searching and found this ... that shows how to take off the handle itself, I could really just do that instead of replacing the whole thing. I wonder if that would be enough given how old it is.

He's doing a more involved job of replacing the tap washer - if you are lucky your job is even easier.  The handle part which is missing is just held on with a little screw which goes in top of the 'stem' - circled red.  If the replacement tap you buy has the same pattern of handle then in theory you could unscrew the handle from the new tap and screw it onto the stem of the old one.  That said, it looks like someone has been chewing the top of the stem (possibly using pliers to turn the tap on and off?) so it may have been damaged too much to get away with just swapping the handle.

The method of getting to the washer in the video could allow you to swap the valve assembly of the new tap onto the old body - but you would be very lucky if the dimensions were exactly the same.

If you have to change the whole tap then you'll need to turn the nut marked with the green arrow - but it is really important to have a second spanner on the nut marked with the blue arrow so the pipework and the part known as a 'wallplate elbow' (the bit screwed onto the wall) don't get damaged.  They aren't designed to take the force of undoing/doing up the tap, hence the blue arrowed nut which allows you to stop the fixed part trying to turn with the tap.

Replacing an outside tap can be fiddly, because you need the tap turned enough times to get it to tighten into the wallplate elbow, but you also want the tap to finish in the vertical position with the handle at the top.  There are varius tricks to getting it right - one of which is to put fibre washers in the joint so the tap is fully tightened in a different position to where it would be if there were no washers.  You might be lucky and it works first time - but you may want to buy washers at the same time as the tap so you have some if you need them.  Wrapping lots of PTFE tape around the thread is another method people use, and you'll probably find others on youtube.

Thanks for marking the picture, that's above and beyond. I only have one wrench, which is not a problem, I can get another one.
The replacement of the handle really appeals to me, sounds like less messing around, though I totally understand getting the right size might be difficult, I'll sleep on it, looking at the prices of a new tap or just the handle seems comparable.

As for luck, we don't come in one package 😅 I'll need to find the easiest solution to undo 

WIAWSNB said:

Jemma01 said:

I appreciate the detailed response, thanks a lot. I am planning to replace it myself, I watched few videos and think that I can do it. The only thing I can't find online is what happens when the handle itself is broken, and how to go about testing (or letting any water run out) before physically taking the whole pipe off. I'll probably use a wrench to try to open and close it.

Excuse the spider web 😅 these were meant for my personal use to search online for a suitable replacement

Good pictures.

As Section 62 said, if you wished to just replace the 'internals', it would have to be a physically idential tap. 

Almost certainly a better solution is to replace the tap itself by unscrewing it from the wallplate. This will require two adjustable spanners/wrenches - one to hold the wallplate steady against the unscrewing force, and the other to unscrew the tap. 

So, what tools do you have?!

Do you have a 'mole' type clamping wrench? If so, that should fit on the tap spindle and allow you to operate it to confirm that the water is off. 

This is a nice DIY task, but the main issues are that the fixings can be tight, and need a firm force to undo, and that can lead to damage to other parts if they are not restrained properly - ie that wallplate.

First, though, check your mains stopcock, that it works and is easy to turn. Check that it shuts off fully (kitchen cold tap), and then fully open it until it stops - and then give it one turn closed again - leave it there.

Get a mole grip or similar on that spindle, and turn it anti-clockwise to open the tap - does any water come out? If water continues to trickle, then check the isolating valve under your sink - yes, the red one :-) Make sure it's at right angles to the pipe direction.

Before you start on the tap itself, please let us know what tools you have for the job - adjustable spanners and wrenches.

This is the one I have, it fits both the blue and the green arrows in @Section62 's picture, so I need another one to hold the other side. I'm still building my tool box, not had my house for long.
I'll check with a plumber about the internal stopcock and its impact on my heat pump, I'll see if I can arrange for someone to have a look, I think it needs bleeding as well (looks ridiculously easy to do), I'm just unsure about turning it off and on as I imagine the pressure will drop; better to have someone watch me do it safely, then I'll replace the tap on my own.

As for them being tight, my push ups and pull ups better come in handy !! 🤣🤣
 

Albermarle

I  find this type of locking adjustable wrench useful in many situations if your are looking to buy one.

Stanley Curved Jaw Locking Pliers 9" (225mm) - Screwfix

Jemma01

MeteredOut thanks lovely, I'll pop there on saturday with the pictures and see what they give me. I do want to research for the most friendly option for the PTFE option, I saw a guy use a liquid version and he said it is useful when you need to reposition the tap (if it doesn't sit straight)

silvercar said:

Looking at your first picture, and it may just be the angle, is there  a t-junction in the cold mains water pipe that goes into the wall? Looks to be covered in expanding foam where it exits? If so, that may be the external tap, or it may be something else.

I appreciate you questioning this, cuz I had doubts about it initially, and yes there is a T pipe there, I ruled it out because the pipe size didn't look like the standard ones I've seen in videos (obviously that's not smart seeing that the rest of the pipe is behind the cabinet!). So I went outside and took a picture how it aligns with the window from both inside and outside (as the inside is a mess, I'll just show the outside 🤣). The one you've pointed out aligns with the yellow line, and the circled red with the red line. Unfortunately, 
WIAWSNB won't be eating his non-existing hat on this one 🤣. 

RavingMad said:

Might want to turn off the feed to the dishwasher if it's not in use. 

I will do, I want to test the handles and avoid potential leak, I'd love to get rid of it altogether, I'll just wait until I redo the kitchen in a year or so.

Albermarle said:

I  find this type of locking adjustable wrench useful in many situations if your are looking to buy one.

Stanley Curved Jaw Locking Pliers 9" (225mm) - Screwfix

oooh I like the look of this, I just googled how it works, I'll check out when I go to screwfix on Saturday. Thank you.

WIAWSNB

Jemma01 said:

MeteredOut thanks lovely, I'll pop there on saturday with the pictures and see what they give me. I do want to research for the most friendly option for the PTFE option, I saw a guy use a liquid version and he said it is useful when you need to reposition the tap (if it doesn't sit straight)

silvercar said:

Looking at your first picture, and it may just be the angle, is there  a t-junction in the cold mains water pipe that goes into the wall? Looks to be covered in expanding foam where it exits? If so, that may be the external tap, or it may be something else.

I appreciate you questioning this, cuz I had doubts about it initially, and yes there is a T pipe there, I ruled it out because the pipe size didn't look like the standard ones I've seen in videos (obviously that's not smart seeing that the rest of the pipe is behind the cabinet!). So I went outside and took a picture how it aligns with the window from both inside and outside (as the inside is a mess, I'll just show the outside 🤣). The one you've pointed out aligns with the yellow line, and the circled red with the red line. Unfortunately, 
WIAWSNB won't be eating his non-existing hat on this one 🤣. 

RavingMad said:

Might want to turn off the feed to the dishwasher if it's not in use. 

I will do, I want to test the handles and avoid potential leak, I'd love to get rid of it altogether, I'll just wait until I redo the kitchen in a year or so.

Albermarle said:

I  find this type of locking adjustable wrench useful in many situations if your are looking to buy one.

Stanley Curved Jaw Locking Pliers 9" (225mm) - Screwfix

oooh I like the look of this, I just googled how it works, I'll check out when I go to screwfix on Saturday. Thank you.

Lol - that's just showing off!

These Stanley Curved Locking Pliers are what I refer to as a 'Mole' wrench. A small one of these would be ideal for clamping on to the tap spindle in order to make it turn. But you can start with normal pliers, or even the adjustable spanner you showed us, if it'll fit tightly over the spindle 'flats'.

WIAWSNB

Jemma01 said:

This is the one I have, it fits both the blue and the green arrows in @Section62 's picture, so I need another one to hold the other side. I'm still building my tool box, not had my house for long. That adjustable spanner is perfect - yes, another one of these would do nicely.
I'll check with a plumber about the internal stopcock and its impact on my heat pump, I'll see if I can arrange for someone to have a look, I think it needs bleeding as well (looks ridiculously easy to do), I'm just unsure about turning it off and on as I imagine the pressure will drop; better to have someone watch me do it safely, then I'll replace the tap on my own. No, turning your main stopcock off for a few minutes will have no adverse affect on anything. Heating systems, like your Heat Pump, are sealed, and quite separate from the mains (drinking!) water. So, feel safe in turning your main stopcock off in order to check it's free-moving and works fine - chances are it will be. For the outside tap, you'll only need to isolate at the wee screwdriver-operated isolating valve circled in red.

I don't know anything about running a HeatPump, or how to 'bleed' them - unless you mean the radiators? But if this is remotely a 'user'-type task, then clearly you will be up to it. But read the instructions fully, and contact the manufacturer if in any doubt.

As for them being tight, my push ups and pull ups better come in handy !! 🤣🤣
 

Bits in bold.

That spanner is perfect. One wee hint in its use. See how the head is angled to the handle? That means you can slip it on to the flats of the nut in two ways, and the handle will point in a slightly different direction each way.

The tap will likely be quite tight. And you also don't want to apply too much turning force on the wallplate in case it's damaged where it's screwed to the wall. So, you need to keep the wallplate 'nut' steady, whilst aplying the unscrewing force on the tap itself. This is what I tend to do:

Stand next to the tap where it's comfy, and where you'll be able to operate the two spanners. Slip the spanners on to each nut, and trial them each way around until you end up with the two handles only slightly apart from eachother, but with the 'tap' one higher than the wallplate fellow.

The idea is to be able to wrap both hands around both spanner handles, and then you just squeeeeze them together - that will apply a lot of controlled torque to the joint. 

The other part of the trick is to brace your knee or thigh (or whatever height it's at) against the green handle, to help keep it from moving downwards, and to focus on squeezing the yellow handle downwards, whilst simply holding the greeny steady. You'll sense how to do this this as you do it - your fingers will keep the green spanner steady, and your thumbpads will be the part moving down on the yellow handle.

This will almost certainly work.

Another wee hint. You'll always want these adjustable spanners to be as snug a fit as possible on the nut flats - any looseness can risk it rounding the flat corners or even slipping (brass is relatively soft). Once you've figured out the best fitting angle for the spanners, then slip them on and 'rock' them slightly up and down whilst also turning the thumb-tightener. This will usually get the jaws that wee extra bit more snug against the flats, and you'll notice the 'rocking' will reduse as this occurs - it'll pretty much stop rocking when it's 'tight'! Always a snug fit.

Section62

Jemma01 said:

...
The replacement of the handle really appeals to me, sounds like less messing around, though I totally understand getting the right size might be difficult, I'll sleep on it, looking at the prices of a new tap or just the handle seems comparable.

Definitely buy the whole tap...

Jemma01 said:

As for luck, we don't come in one package 😅 I'll need to find the easiest solution to undo

...which is the idea of taking the handle off the new tap and see if it will fit on the old one, that just involves one screw.

If it doesn't fit you've got the fallback of swapping the whole tap over.

If you are able to just swap the handle then keep the rest of the new tap somewhere you'll be able to find it - in a plastic bag taped to the pipework under the sink could be a good choice - that way if the next thing that goes wrong with the old tap is a drip/leak past the washer you've got the option of swapping the rest of the tap out with the one you've already got.