FTB & listed building

jamesrcmd

Section62 said:

Perhaps take a step back.  Would you still buy the property if you were told you can't change the doors etc?  As per my previous post, one of the key things with owning a listed building is understanding you can't just make the changes you want to make.  If you are already contemplating breaking the law before you've purchased then you've got to think carefully whether owning a listed building is for you.

This is a very good point...

MobileSaver

jamesrcmd said:

Is it a bad sign that the house has been on the market for a year?

It is a grade 2 listed property. 

Without knowing anything else about the area or property, this is the most likely reason that it's been on the market for a year. 

Many people, including myself, would not be interested in buying a listed property at any price so the pool of potential buyers is always going to be much smaller than a normal non-listed property; something to bear in mind considering that one day you'll presumably want to sell the property...

jamesrcmd

jamesrcmd said:

Is it a bad sign that the house has been on the market for a year?

It is a grade 2 listed property. 

Without knowing anything else about the area or property, this is the most likely reason that it's been on the market for a year. 

Many people, including myself, would not be interested in buying a listed property at any price so the pool of potential buyers is always going to be much smaller than a normal non-listed property; something to bear in mind considering that one day you'll presumably want to sell the property...

I guess that is exactly why it's been on the market for so long...

Section62

jamesrcmd said:

This is a very good point.MobileSaver said:

jamesrcmd said:

Is it a bad sign that the house has been on the market for a year?

It is a grade 2 listed property. 

Without knowing anything else about the area or property, this is the most likely reason that it's been on the market for a year. 

Many people, including myself, would not be interested in buying a listed property at any price so the pool of potential buyers is always going to be much smaller than a normal non-listed property; something to bear in mind considering that one day you'll presumably want to sell the property...

I guess that is exactly why it's been on the market for so long...

I wonder whether the current owner's comprehensive renovation is part of the problem?  People who are more likely to be attacted to a listed building (I'd count myself as one) will generally be looking for something with character as compensation for the constraints listing imposes.

If the vendors have done things like knocking walls down, removing chimney breasts, and painted everything in shades of grey, then it may be that the property doesn't offer anything internally that a new build doesn't, whilst imposing restrictions on what may be done by the buyer to make it 'home'.  Alternatively it doesn't have to be a modern makeover to make it less attractive - a 'restoration' involving things like fake beams painted black is not going to do it for someone seeking an honest building of character

jamesrcmd

Section62 said:

jamesrcmd said:

This is a very good point.MobileSaver said:

jamesrcmd said:

Is it a bad sign that the house has been on the market for a year?

It is a grade 2 listed property. 

Without knowing anything else about the area or property, this is the most likely reason that it's been on the market for a year. 

Many people, including myself, would not be interested in buying a listed property at any price so the pool of potential buyers is always going to be much smaller than a normal non-listed property; something to bear in mind considering that one day you'll presumably want to sell the property...

I guess that is exactly why it's been on the market for so long...

I wonder whether the current owner's comprehensive renovation is part of the problem?  People who are more likely to be attacted to a listed building (I'd count myself as one) will generally be looking for something with character as compensation for the constraints listing imposes.

If the vendors have done things like knocking walls down, removing chimney breasts, and painted everything in shades of grey, then it may be that the property doesn't offer anything internally that a new build doesn't, whilst imposing restrictions on what may be done by the buyer to make it 'home'.  Alternatively it doesn't have to be a modern makeover to make it less attractive - a 'restoration' involving things like fake beams painted black is not going to do it for someone seeking an honest building of character

This is also a possible reason why it is not selling. 🤔

FreeBear

jamesrcmd said:

Section62 said:

jamesrcmd said:

This is a very good point.MobileSaver said:

jamesrcmd said:

Is it a bad sign that the house has been on the market for a year?

It is a grade 2 listed property. 

Without knowing anything else about the area or property, this is the most likely reason that it's been on the market for a year. 

Many people, including myself, would not be interested in buying a listed property at any price so the pool of potential buyers is always going to be much smaller than a normal non-listed property; something to bear in mind considering that one day you'll presumably want to sell the property...

I guess that is exactly why it's been on the market for so long...

I wonder whether the current owner's comprehensive renovation is part of the problem?  People who are more likely to be attacted to a listed building (I'd count myself as one) will generally be looking for something with character as compensation for the constraints listing imposes.

If the vendors have done things like knocking walls down, removing chimney breasts, and painted everything in shades of grey, then it may be that the property doesn't offer anything internally that a new build doesn't, whilst imposing restrictions on what may be done by the buyer to make it 'home'.  Alternatively it doesn't have to be a modern makeover to make it less attractive - a 'restoration' involving things like fake beams painted black is not going to do it for someone seeking an honest building of character

This is also a possible reason why it is not selling. 🤔

And if any of the renovations were done without the appropriate Listed Building Consent, the new owners would still be on the hook should any enforcement notices be served - Unlike planning & building regs breaches, there is no time limit for LBC breaches.

So if you do buy a listed building, you have to go through all the paperwork with a fine toothcomb.

jamesrcmd

FreeBear said:
And if any of the renovations were done without the appropriate Listed Building Consent, the new owners would still be on the hook should any enforcement notices be served - Unlike planning & building regs breaches, there is no time limit for LBC breaches.

So if you do buy a listed building, you have to go through all the paperwork with a fine toothcomb.

Any ideas what the solicitors would charge for conveyancing in this specific situation?
I have seen quotes between £1600 and £1800 online.

Would it be a good idea to ask the owner for a list of alterations carried out by them during their occupancy of this property and also any unauthorised alterations that have been carried out prior to them occupying the property?

I guess if they come back to me saying they can't provide this list, I will have to pull out of the sale...

Section62

jamesrcmd said:

I guess if they come back to me saying they can't provide this list, I will have to pull out of the sale...

Potentially more of a problem is if they come back saying they don't know what changes were made prior to them owning it, and giving you an incomplete list of changes they have made.

The starting point is probably looking at the consents to see what was approved, and comparing that to what you (/your surveyor) can identify as recent alterations.

Essentially the risk is that anything you can't cover off with indemnity insurance, and becomes something you are required to put right, would be at your cost.  If you have deep pockets and could afford to pay for rectification work then this isn't necessarily an issue - but as a FTB possibly maxing out on what you can afford you may be in a position where relatively low probabilities of issues arising become a more significant risk to consider.

If the property is cheap for the area and not selling (in over 12 months) then you have to ask yourself "why?".  Perhaps the issue is with unconsented alterations, or an inability of the vendors to confirm what has and hasn't been changed?

jamesrcmd

Section62 said:

jamesrcmd said:

I guess if they come back to me saying they can't provide this list, I will have to pull out of the sale...

Potentially more of a problem is if they come back saying they don't know what changes were made prior to them owning it, and giving you an incomplete list of changes they have made.

The starting point is probably looking at the consents to see what was approved, and comparing that to what you (/your surveyor) can identify as recent alterations.

Essentially the risk is that anything you can't cover off with indemnity insurance, and becomes something you are required to put right, would be at your cost.  If you have deep pockets and could afford to pay for rectification work then this isn't necessarily an issue - but as a FTB possibly maxing out on what you can afford you may be in a position where relatively low probabilities of issues arising become a more significant risk to consider.

If the property is cheap for the area and not selling (in over 12 months) then you have to ask yourself "why?".  Perhaps the issue is with unconsented alterations, or an inability of the vendors to confirm what has and hasn't been changed?

This is exactly what is happening

I think it's best if I pull of the sale as there is no way I can afford to remove all the renovations they did.
I did think it was too good to be true. I guess I will have to keep looking for another house...

jamesrcmd

Just spoke to the agent.

The other estate agents have got several viewings this week and received offers in the region of £210k.
I was asked to increase my offer to £210k, which I have refused on the basis that I am not satisfied that listed building consent was obtained to carry out the renovation work. Because of this risk, I think my offer is even too generous.

The agent said all the work was carried out by the previous owners and was unaware that the new owner would become liable if consent hadn't been sought. After pointing this out, they said they will let the vendors know.

How would you find out if the previous owners had obtained listed building consent? Would there be any records at the council?