FTB & listed building

jamesrcmd

First-time buyer in my early 30s. I'm looking to buy a freehold 2-bedroom house on my own, which seems to be quite difficult in the South-East of England, considering the current house prices.

I'm going to view my first property this week. The advert says the guide price is £200-225k. What does this mean? If I offer £200k (all I can afford really), could they reject it to get me to offer more?

The house has been on the market since March 2024 with an initial asking price of £245k, which has dropped to £200-225k (the guide price mentioned before). Is it a bad sign that the house has been on the market for a year? Should I assume there is something wrong with the property? 

The property is chain-free and there are two more houses for sale on the same street at the same price. Could this be a sign that there is something wrong with the area? The price looks too appealing for a 2-bed terraced house so I'm wondering if there is something they are hiding...

It is a grade 2 listed property. Will I have to ask permission to the council if I want to replace the carpets for hard wood floors, get a new front and back door, turn the bath into a shower?

I have few more questions that might be a bit difficult to answer...

1. Am I crazy for wanting a 10-year fix? I'm scared about uncertainty and I like to know exactly what I will be paying each month for as long as possible. I know remortgaging is an option but wouldn't that be more costly than a long fix?
2. I intend to live in the house for as long as possible but I was wondering... is negative equity a possibility? I'm worried that if I decide to sell I might not be able to make enough money to pay off the mortgage. 
3. I intend to put down a deposit of £10k, which would give me a 95% LTV. If I put down more, would this increase my chances of being accepted for a mortgage? I am aware of all the costs associated to buying a house, so £10k is where I'd really like to draw the line...

Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my questions.
Apologies if most of my questions sound silly but it is all very new for me.

se2020

The guide price is just that, a guide.
You can offer whatever you like. The sellers can accept, reject or counter-offer.

Don't offer too low or the estate agent probably won't take you seriously and introduce you to other property . 
If 200k is right at the top of your budget (remembering you might need £5k+ for costs) maybe go into the agents or call them and tell them you have a max of 200k and ask if it's worth you arranging a viewing.

I wouldn't just assume there is anything wrong with the property.  Agents might not tell you the truth but worth asking them why its not sold yet.
Look through the local Facebook groups to see if anyone has been moaning about problems in that area ,  or just go and have a look and see if there is anything wrong. If they only offer you viewings between 10-2pm do another drive by later/earlier and make sure ita not full of school mums parking everywhere or anything like that.

Look up the listing for the grade 2 status.it will list the features that you can not change.  You need consent to do anything that changes the character of the property. Nobody is ever going to come round and look inside at the carpets. But outside doors will require consent.  Some trades automatically charge more for any work on a listed building.  Mortgage and house insurance may also be more expensive. 
Probably a good part of the reason it's not sold yet. Especially if similar properties are available locally at similar prices without being listed buildings.

1. Nothing wrong with a 10yr fix if you want one.
Nobody knows what will happen so you could end up paying over the odds or you could save a fortune.
It's either piece of mind or a gamble if you fancy one

2. Yes. You will only have 10% equity. If house prices drop 15% before you have paid 5% off the mortgage you will be in negative equity. 
So if you can only sell for 185k you'll have to find 5k from somewhere to pay off the remainder. 
Along with this, if it's interest rates going up that cause house prices to drop, lots of other people will be in the same boat. If they all want to sell then rent prices will go through the roof.
But, its only a problem if you need or really want to sell. Otherwise you still pay the mortgage and still have somewhere to live.
If you want to sell to buy somewhere else then the new house should have dropped in price as well so if you have the 5k plus an extra 40k you might get a 4 bed house!
Basically,  house prices are only an issue if you want to get into or out of the property market. They don't affect you so much if you just want to move house.

3. The amount of deposit will have more affect on the interest rate you pay than your chances of being accepted.  Acceptance will depend more on employment, income, outgoings, credit history, and so on.
It also depends on the house itself. Not all lenders will mortgage a grade 2 listed property.  Not all of the ones that do will accept only a 10% deposit. And some of them will have higher interest rates.
You'll either need to do some research on that or go and see a broker to find out how easy it will be to get a mortgage and how much it will cost.

gm0

You absolutely need to understand the listing and what it refers to. 

Listed buildings can often be cheaper than the equivalent without one in a locality.  Precisely because of the liability and extra costs of ownership/constraints on change and lack of development potential. 

Cheaper because it will cost more to look after it.  Heritage trades can be very expensive now some skills are rare.  And captive market.  And it being expensive doesn't mean you don't have to do it.

The nature of the listing will describe the features you become responsible for if you buy it

Instead of planning and building control - you now have to get listed building consent for alterations - as well. Not instead.

And if someone has been bad and done something awful DIY to the listed items prior - then on buying - you inherit the issues with compliance and liability for making good - should your local listed buildings officer discover it.  A bad boy did it and ran away doesn't get you a pass.  They will want repairs.  And you get to do it. Or sell with that liability likely now visible/declared and priced in. 

So with a listing.  What should be there.  And what is there.  Needs to be checked.

Lots of different things can be part of a listing.  Windows.  Tiles.  Chimneys. Exterior walls.  Gardens

An old library in Aberystwyth was sold for redevelopment (or other use).  The listing there was for some unusual old victorian decorative tiles on the interior walls.  And not a lot else. The rest of fhe building structure was in a poor and neglected state.  To work within the "these historic tiles need to stay" constraint.  It would have needed to be worked on outside in without disturbance - likely impractical.  Or dismantled. Numbered.  Stored.  Knocked about to a limited extent. And tiles put back more or less exactly as before.  Incredible levels of effort and expense. "Restoration" - not building works of the smash out and fit new variety.

This is not usually an FTB adventure.  Caveat Emptor.

teaselMay

One thing to think about with the ten year fix is that you've a 5% deposit which will mean interest rates that are available to you will be relatively high.

As time goes on your LTV will decrease, more so if you over pay, enabling you to move in to a more favourable LTV band. Everything else being equal that change in LTV would be associated with lower interest rate deals becoming available.

I'm just in the process of buying with a 10% deposit and that's one of the reasons that I chose a 2 year fix. My mortgage is a quarter the size of yours (shared ownership) and so it will take less absolute funds to change the LTV significantly, but it's worth doing the sums of when you'd be likely to move into a different band of mortgage rate offers. You can find tables of available rates in relation to LTV and other factors on lenders' websites.

eddddy

jamesrcmd said:

I'm going to view my first property this week. The advert says the guide price is £200-225k. What does this mean? If I offer £200k (all I can afford really), could they reject it to get me to offer more?

Yes - the seller could reject your offer, if they feel it's too low for them, or for any other reason.

(Even if you offered £225k or more, the seller is still free to reject your offer. But I guess the higher the offer the less likely they are to reject it.)


Nobody here can 'get inside the head' of the seller, so nobody can be certain why the seller has priced the property like that - or what kind of offer they would accept.

The property has been on the market for a year, so it could be that...

• The seller is desperate, and will consider a low offer (maybe even less than £200k)

Or it could be that...

• The seller has decided they will only sell if they get a good price. If they can't get a good price, they'll stay where they are

Or many other possibilities

FlorayG

jamesrcmd said:

. What does this mean? If I offer £200k (all I can afford really), could they reject it to get me to offer more?

 Is it a bad sign that the house has been on the market for a year? Should I assume there is something wrong with the property? 



It is a grade 2 listed property. Will I have to ask permission to the council if I want to replace the carpets for hard wood floors, get a new front and back door, turn the bath into a shower?

Offer what you can afford, they can say yes or no. If you don't have more then say so and walk away ( I once got a property this way- genuinely I had no more money but they were desperate to sell, the EA convinced them)
Market is very, very slow ATM. There's a lovely bungalow for sale in my street been on the market 8 months now, absolutely nothing wrong with it. Some friends of mine have a lovely house on the market almost a year as well.
Listed properties beware; some local authorities are red hot on ANYTHING being changed and may refuse you. You can't knock walls down, change doors or windows or roofing, add even small extensions, solar panels, heat pumps, all sorts of restrictions; be very careful there

TroubledTarts

teaselMay said:

One thing to think about with the ten year fix is that you've a 5% deposit which will mean interest rates that are available to you will be relatively high.

As time goes on your LTV will decrease, more so if you over pay, enabling you to move in to a more favourable LTV band. Everything else being equal that change in LTV would be associated with lower interest rate deals becoming available.

I'm just in the process of buying with a 10% deposit and that's one of the reasons that I chose a 2 year fix. My mortgage is a quarter the size of yours (shared ownership) and so it will take less absolute funds to change the LTV significantly, but it's worth doing the sums of when you'd be likely to move into a different band of mortgage rate offers. You can find tables of available rates in relation to LTV and other factors on lenders' websites.

This part is not completely true.

For first time buyers, with low deposit (which is normal) the current rates for lower term fixes range from 4.49%over 6%

However Virgin Money offer a 95% ltv 10 year fix at 5.29%

jamesrcmd

gm0 said:

You absolutely need to understand the listing and what it refers to. 

Listed buildings can often be cheaper than the equivalent without one in a locality.  Precisely because of the liability and extra costs of ownership/constraints on change and lack of development potential. 

Cheaper because it will cost more to look after it.  Heritage trades can be very expensive now some skills are rare.  And captive market.  And it being expensive doesn't mean you don't have to do it.

The nature of the listing will describe the features you become responsible for if you buy it

Instead of planning and building control - you now have to get listed building consent for alterations - as well. Not instead.

And if someone has been bad and done something awful DIY to the listed items prior - then on buying - you inherit the issues with compliance and liability for making good - should your local listed buildings officer discover it.  A bad boy did it and ran away doesn't get you a pass.  They will want repairs.  And you get to do it. Or sell with that liability likely now visible/declared and priced in. 

So with a listing.  What should be there.  And what is there.  Needs to be checked.

Lots of different things can be part of a listing.  Windows.  Tiles.  Chimneys. Exterior walls.  Gardens

An old library in Aberystwyth was sold for redevelopment (or other use).  The listing there was for some unusual old victorian decorative tiles on the interior walls.  And not a lot else. The rest of fhe building structure was in a poor and neglected state.  To work within the "these historic tiles need to stay" constraint.  It would have needed to be worked on outside in without disturbance - likely impractical.  Or dismantled. Numbered.  Stored.  Knocked about to a limited extent. And tiles put back more or less exactly as before.  Incredible levels of effort and expense. "Restoration" - not building works of the smash out and fit new variety.

This is not usually an FTB adventure.  Caveat Emptor.

I looked it up on Historic England. It says: This building is listed under the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990 as amended for its special architectural or historic interest.

What does it mean? Would I still be able to change the carpets for hardwood floors and the front/back doors?

Bigphil1474

This is from the legislation (section 7) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/9/section/7 

"Subject to the following provisions of this Act, no person shall execute or cause to be executed any works for the demolition of a listed building or for its alteration or extension in any manner which would affect its character as a building of special architectural or historic interest, unless the works are authorised [F2under section 8]"

Your local council will have the actual list of buildings. In laymen's terms I would interpret that as to say you can't do any works which affect the building character. Carpets don't affect the character of a building. Doors may well do. There have been stories of people getting fined for painting their doors the wrong colour, but not sure if it's the same Act as this. You should be able to replace the door, just not necessarily the door you want.

Re Offers. Where I live there has been a steady stream of vacant properties coming onto the market from small landlords getting out of the rental game. Very noticeable last year. An empty house will be costing them money, so if you come in at the bottom end your offer could well be accepted if that's the case.

RAS

Go onto the Council web-site and read the listing. What does it say exactly? 

I've seen some really surprising internal alterations of listed buildings that did not alter external appearance of building and were allowed.

I've seen some bonkers demands for the inclusion "local" characteristics into extensions in buildings where no other listed properties in the same or adjacent villages or towns shared that characteristic.

I've also seen instances of the retention of 20th century bodges rather than reinstatement of 16th century finishes, because the bodge was included in the listing.

I'd also at least ask locals on the street, or check the Land Registry (total cost £21) to see the properties are owned by the same person and if there are any covenants.

I'd expect you to have to retain or replace with equivalent, any windows and doors. You won't be allowed double glazing, but might get away with Kglass to the rear. Secondary glazing costs and takes up space. 

And get a proper structural survey.

FreeBear

RAS said: I'd expect you to have to retain or replace with equivalent, any windows and doors. You won't be allowed double glazing, but might get away with Kglass to the rear. Secondary glazing costs and takes up space.

It is possible to get Listed Building Consent for double glazed windows in some situations. You may need to match the style and material of the originals, so uPVC would be out of the question. You may also be restricted to slim (12mm) sealed units. Goes without saying that this all comes at an extra cost.

Like for like repairs do not (generally) need an LBC application. So if you have a chunk of plaster missing, just get on and repair (with a lime plaster). Rewiring and changes to the heating system shouldn't need LBC. New carpets or laminate fall outside the scope of a G2 listing as long as the original flooring is not damaged. If/when you come to paint, be careful about your choice of paints - Modern synthetic paints are not suitable for older properties.. And do check the listing just in case you have some William Morris wallpaper that has to be left untouched.

Listed building ownership comes with a great deal of responsibility and costs - On that last point, do make sure that you are adequately insured. Rebuild costs in the event of a total lost may not be excessive, but if it is only a partial loss, repairs could exceed your insured limit.