PCNs from CPM for parking in my own space & Letter from BW Legal

Coupon-mad

You'll need to ramp it up if they say no.

h2g2

If you really want to push back you can go for:

Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) only the owner or occupier of land, or someone authorised by them, can pursue parking charges for parking on that land. You, by right of the deed, possess and occupy the land and are therefore the "owner or occupier" by that act. As such parking charges issued on that land cannot be valid since you did not authorise them.

Additionally, clauses allowing for "regulation" or similar in leasehold agreements have been found to not be sufficient to impose parking charges but a formal variation of the lease would be required (Link Parking v Ms P C7GF50J7 [2016] - get hold of a transcript and send it them if you want).

The managing agents / company therefore cannot authorise these parking charges and must order them to cancelled. If they are not cancelled you will counterclaim any court proceedings for trespass against goods (following the authority R Davey vs UKPC) [and misuse of personal data (if they obtained your details from the DVLA)].

My experience is that the managing agent won't budge, but if you do make these counterclaims later they can't say you were being unreasonable about it.

KoalaMSEF

Counterclaim to the MA and/or the freeholder is more likely to get these charges cancelled. It is likely that you will need to talk 'legal' in dealing with them. In our case, MA refused to do anything even after the complaint escalated to the regional manager, in which case, that person still pointed us to the parking company who said that they would cancel but actually sent our case to their debt collector legals. This has only been resolved after a letter before a counterclaim that we raised sent to the freeholder. Even though, MA still dragged their feet and looked for excuses. 

WillowsPuppy01

Looks like my MA is sticking to their official line in an email i received this morning:

"Hi, 

While I understand the permit may have slipped off your dashboard that would suggest it was not visible for the parking controller to see. Please ensure your permit is visible to prevent future parking charge notices being applied to your vehicle. 

Unfortunately, you cannot opt out of the parking management scheme. The parking management would have been set up to prevent authorised vehicles from parking at the development. The terms or the management are stated on the notices around the car park."

Looks like they're not going to even try to get my PCNs cancelled, OR allow me to opt out of the CPM madness

I've got to draft an email reply - their lack of care has annoyed me, so i really want to push back on this!

1505grandad

" The parking management would have been set up to prevent authorised vehicles from parking at the development."

That doesn't make sense.

h2g2

WillowsPuppy01 said:

Looks like my MA is sticking to their official line in an email i received this morning:

"Hi, 

While I understand the permit may have slipped off your dashboard that would suggest it was not visible for the parking controller to see. Please ensure your permit is visible to prevent future parking charge notices being applied to your vehicle. 

Unfortunately, you cannot opt out of the parking management scheme. The parking management would have been set up to prevent authorised vehicles from parking at the development. The terms or the management are stated on the notices around the car park."

Looks like they're not going to even try to get my PCNs cancelled, OR allow me to opt out of the CPM madness

I've got to draft an email reply - their lack of care has annoyed me, so i really want to push back on this!

I wrote up a more robust reply to a similar situation on another thread: here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81337967/#Comment_81337967

Phrase it slightly differently: "if you cannot opt me out of the scheme can you please explain the legal basis ..." for example.

KoalaMSEF

WillowsPuppy01 said:

Looks like my MA is sticking to their official line in an email i received this morning:

"Hi, 

While I understand the permit may have slipped off your dashboard that would suggest it was not visible for the parking controller to see. Please ensure your permit is visible to prevent future parking charge notices being applied to your vehicle. 

Unfortunately, you cannot opt out of the parking management scheme. The parking management would have been set up to prevent authorised vehicles from parking at the development. The terms or the management are stated on the notices around the car park."

Looks like they're not going to even try to get my PCNs cancelled, OR allow me to opt out of the CPM madness

I've got to draft an email reply - their lack of care has annoyed me, so i really want to push back on this!

Expected re. the response from MA. You can continue the correspondence with them, start a complaint, escalate the complaint, and even go to Ombudsman for breach of contract (i.e., the lease). 

Alternatively, If you need to write a letter before claim (counterclaim to MA and landlord), check https://www.scribd.com/document/348759692/LBC-to-MC-Hairray
https://www.scribd.com/document/348759691/LBC-to-Landowner

It will give you an idea about the kind of language and the arguments to get them to be serious.

There are some serious adaptations needed to be done. It also requires reading the lease and finding the relevant sections/clauses. 

It is useful if you decide to bring a counterclaim to them later. 

MA won't do anything unless they are forced to do something or face bigger consequences. 

WillowsPuppy01

Posting an update to this, so that others in a similar situation might find it useful.

(delay between posts because work, life, the usual!)

Thanks to both @h2g2 and @KoalaMSEF for your comments; i've responded to my MA with a slightly amended version of Koala's letter, and also replied/made a formal complaint to BW Legal (via disputeresolution@bwlegal.co.uk) using an amended version of the template in Post #2 of the 'NEWBIES' thread.

The ultimate goal is to get my MA to get these 2 'charges' thrown out, but just in case, i'm also fully prepared to take this all the way to court - though hopefully it won't get that far.

I will, of course, keep y'all updated, and my continued thanks for this forum and it's resources.

EDIT: I've also recieved a text from a company called 'Empira', which after a little research here, appears to be part of the Gladstones moraly corrupt empire - Screenshot below - I believe they're acting in a 'debt recovery' capacity here, so I'll do what i've done with all other debt collection letters relating to PCNs... ignore them. This relates to a PCN from Feb this year - not the 2 BW Legal are chasing me for - I just didn't want to start another thread.

Coupon-mad

Yep - ignore that.

Le_Kirk

Agreed - 14 days is the clue - it's debt collection hamster bedding.