PCNs from CPM for parking in my own space & Letter from BW Legal

jd576

WillowsPuppy01 said:

They keep mentioning a 'contract' - funny as i've never agreed to any such contract

The basis of all private parking claims such as this is that you entered into a contract by conduct - you saw the signs and, by your conduct (parking there), entered into the contract. This is a perfectly valid way to create a contract and this is what the company will argue in court. 

However, this has several implications with respect to valid formation of the contract

• If you could not see the signs (for example unlit in hours of darkness, poor legibility, poor placement, lack of signage at the entrance to the parking containing the precise terms and conditions), then a contract was not validly formed. For example, if there's no signage at the entrance, even if you parked and later, after parking saw the signs, a contract was not validly formed (Thornton vs Shoe Lane Parking)
• The 3rd party manager must have the right to form a contract with you: if you have parking rights in your tenancy agreement, then no contract can be formed by conduct between you and a 3rd party manager in such a way that it overrides or limits the easement granted in your tenancy agreement without an explicit variation in writing to your tenancy agreement. Your property rights override any agreement between the landholder and the 3rd party manager and you are not bound by such an agreement (see above). 

WillowsPuppy01

So, the exact wording in my lease with regards to my allocated parking space is under 'MUTUAL COVENANTS' (i say allocated, as i own the leasehold of my flat, and the space is allocated to my flat - this wording is important, apparently) is as follows:

"Not to park or to suffer or permit to be parked upon any parking space allocated to the Premises from time to time any vehicle other than a private motor car in domestic use" 

This is also echoed in the Head Lease i have (the lease between the landowners, Barrett Homes, and my landlords, Hyde Housing) and the wording is, under 'Other Covenants':

"Not to park or allow any cars or other vehicles to be parked on any parts of the estate other than in the parking spaces provided"

So, MY lease only has that one specific mention of an ALLOCATED space, but the Head lease goes into a little more detail:

"The parking space is only to be used for parking one fully taxed and licensed private motor car or motor cycle"

"Not to park any caravan or boat or any commercial vehicle, trailer or industrial machinery or any un-roadworthy or untaxed vehicle on any parts of the estate"

That 2nd point piqued my interest, as there is a small shipping container taking up one of the parking spaces, which as i understand, is used by CPM as a base.... though this *could be* a misquote from one of my neighbours - i'm in process of checking it's exact use.

With regards to the signage - The signs aren't huge, but there is one on a lamp post directly behind my parking space - i've not read it, but to claim i've not seen it, would sadly be a stretch....

I've got a mediation meeting/phonecall scheduled for February; these are for 2x PCNs, inflated 'cost' £440.

So, from going thru my lease and the head lease, it appears that the 3rd party; my managing agent (Premier Estates), doesn't have the right to form a contract with me without altering my lease (i don't have a tenancy agreement with my flat documents) and as my car is a fully taxed, licensed and roadworthy *car*, it also appears that i'm not contravening the terms of either lease.

Coupon-mad

Agreed.

Don't waste too much time at Mediation and do not make offers of money.

I'd firmly tell the Mediator that they should be personally embarrassed to spend time propping up meritless parking claims and pressurising good people to make offers to a rogue industry. Tell them to report that to their superiors and stop supporting inflated claim scams.

Phone down.

WillowsPuppy01

I've been having a back-and-forth with the managing agents for my estate to see if there was any way of them intervening. I've contacted them before, but mainly to complain about CPM - which did no good - but now I'm trying to gather as much evidence as possible to prep for court. No date as yet, but it's looking more and more likely.

My emails are in italics, the emails from the senior estates manager are in bold.

Good Morning

We have now received a response from CPM - for full transparency, please see the below. Please ensure you are displaying your parking permit to avoid and further fines being issued. 

From CPM

I have now reviewed the Parking Charge Notices listed below and can confirm that all three PCNs are currently with our Legal team and are over 200 days old. At this stage of the process, these matters are outside of operational control and, regrettably, we no longer have the authority to cancel them. 

By way of background, the PCNs were issued because no valid permit was obtained or displayed at the time of each contravention. While we understand that the motorist resides at the development and may have a demised parking space, the terms of parking on site require residents to both hold and correctly display (or register) a valid permit. Unfortunately, this requirement was not met on any of the dates in question, and the issue has only been raised at a very late stage. 

As the cases have progressed to the legal phase, any further correspondence or representations must now be directed to the Legal team, whose contact details will be included in the relevant correspondence already issued (including the Letter Before Claim). 

I appreciate that this is not the outcome you were hoping for; however, in order to remain fair and consistent to all motorists on site, we are unable to intervene or cancel PCNs that have been correctly issued and have progressed this far. 

As a note the motorist has 5 active PCNs ranging from 2020 to 2025 I am sorry we cannot assist further. (they mention 5, yet they're only actively chasing 2 from 2024!!!!)

Thank you for chasing CPM at the end of last year and sorry to get straight back into it, but I believe that Premier Estates are being fobbed off, and or downright lied to by CPM. They absolutely do have the power to both discontinue the legal proceedings, and to cancel these PCNs, they just don't want to, as they think they might get some money out of me.

I also believe that Premier Estates has the power to overrule CPM, as the company that contracts their 'services', and am more than a little disappointed that PE is appearing to side with CPM, a company with a history of harassment towards motorists.

That being said, I was able to look over my lease, and the head lease, for my property and the estate in general, in some details over the Christmas break.

CPM mentions that the 'terms' of parking on-site require a permit to be displayed, and while there is mention of parking on site in both leases, specifically mentioning allocated parking spaces, there is no mention of needing to display a permit to park within these allocated spaces. My lease is dated 21st October 2008. The leasehold title I have shows that I was registered as the leaseholder for my flat, also on that date. The parking 'scheme' operated by CPM came into place on 16th March 2020 (i have the letter from CPM which came with a Resident and Visitor permit that confirms this). This letter was the only notification I received about this scheme.

I believe that in order to enforce 'parking terms', there would need to be specific mention of a parking permit, or parking permit scheme in my lease, which there is not. At no point has my lease been amended to include these 'parking terms', so as far as I am aware, as long as i don't contravene the terms of my lease with regards to specific mention of parking spaces - my car is taxed, MOT'd and fully road-worthy - then I am within my rights to park there, regardless of displaying a permit.

CPM also keep mentioning a 'contract' that I enter into everytime i enter the car park and park in my space - presumably this 'contract' are the few, tiny signs they have on-site, but again, my lease has no reference to any such contract, and I know that the terms of my lease override any such 'contract' CPM claim.

My lease also has a 'quiet enjoyment' covenant, which I am also certain that contracting CPM to police and harass residents, breaches.

If I am incorrect in any of the above, please let me know, as these are some of the points I will be using in my defence should this go to court.

I'm going to be out of the office a lot for the next 3 weeks however, in a bid to answer some of your questions.

• Premier Estates have no power over CPM - once a contract for parking control is entered into just like any other contract, the terms have to be bound by. Please bear in mind, we are just the agent. 
• Your lease has no bearing on this as the Freeholder can implement any regulations for the Estate - you simply needed to display the permit.
• Quiet enjoyment does not come into play here, it has no bearing whatsoever, the covenant is more around they will not force entry to your flat if you pay all charges/ground rent  and  abide by the terms of the Lease.
• Finally, if PE had been approached when you received the first PCN, very early stages, we may have been able to get that fine cancelled however, it would appear this had been allowed to progress to a stage that is now out of our control. Once CPM go legal, the costs are then out of their control and they have to recover those charges.
• Please kindly ensure you are now displaying your permit
• This is a very difficult issue and I sympathise with your situation however, it has now got to the stage that it is simply out of our hands.

My suggestion would be you reach out to CPM and offer some sort of 'half way' resolution. Please do not take too much comfort in thinking you will win legally, I've been doing this job for over 20 years and it's just not the way it works.  They might settle if you offer to pay their legal fees (which they would have incurred) but you need to act and not wait for a court date. 

That last email was received today. Needless to say I'm a little taken aback... especially with regards to the statements with regards to my lease. I'd be lying if i said that reading legal documents came easy, but I'm going to go back over my lease, and the head lease to see if those covenants are indeed as rigid as she's making out. The Quiet Enjoyment covenant i referred to appears in the Head Lease (between my landlords Hyde, and the landownders, Barrett Homes) and is word as such:

"To allow Hyde peaceful and quiet enjoyment of the flats provided that the rent and covenants on the part of Hyde have been complied with."

In my lease, its under 'Mutual Covenants' and worded quite differently:

"(ii) cause or permit to be caused nuisance annoyance or disturbance  to the owners lessees or occupiers of premises in the neighbourhood or visitors thereto;
(iii) result in any form of harrassment or intimidation of any person, including the landlord's staff, contractors and agents"

This was someing i was going to use in my defence, as it seemed pretty clear-cut. I'd also somewhat hoped that by proving i'd actually read my lease, they might give me some more clarity on how and why CPM have apparently more autority than my lease.

I'm going to call the lease dept at Hyde tomorrow, to see what they have to say.

Half_way

If it hasn't been already, refer the management company to UKPC vs Davey, they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents.

 State  that their response that this is out of their hands is incorrect and false at best and fraudulent at worse, and the fact that they have entered into a contract with a third party stranger (CPM) is of no concern to you, only that they  must instruct their agents to cancel.

Coupon-mad

"Please do not take too much comfort in thinking you will win legally, I've been doing this job for over 20 years and it's just not the way it works."

And I've been doing this stuff for almost 20 years ...and it IS the way it works matey!

Tell him/her to read this:

https://www.judiciary.uk/live-hearings/duchess-of-bedford-house-rtm-company-ltd-ors-appellants-v-campden-hill-gate-ltd-respondent/

ChirpyChicken

Pm me their details and I'll give them a call for you and school them on a few facts 😃

For some reason I take great pleasure in educating foolish people

1505grandad

Not forgetting the scam is recognised/acknowledged in the ppss CoP:-

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81333881/#Comment_81333881

Johnersh

Ultimately the issue UK cpm have is that most of their contracts (certainly the one I challenged) purports to sell the driver a license to park for a period of 24 hrs. That is a falsehood since (a) they never had title to offer that nor the managing agent authority to ask them to manage the scheme on that basis. 

As ever *everything* depends on the exact wording of the signage.

James_Poisson

He/She has been doing the job for over 20 years and still doesn't know that a speculative parking invoice isn't a "fine" what a self opinionated dimwit!

Much of the rest of that is made up garbage too, CPM do not manage parking they scam money. 

If you had appealed with the honest reason that you had a permit but it slipped and they were shown it they should uphold the appeal, but they don't because the appeal system is a sham and they hide behind an implied contract for profit.

A whitelist of vehicles with permitted rights on the CPM system would prevent this but then they couldn't target you could they.

It's quite clear from their letters all through this that  are not there for the service of the residents who are paying them, and their fob off letters show their poor level of service, care and knowledge.

Now lets see what their own website says about Leasehold:

WHAT IS A LEASEHOLD?

A leasehold is a type of ownership that entails a party leasing the right to occupy property to an individual(s) and is agreed upon via a lease. (For those in England and Wales) The lease is a binding document that outlines the relationship between the lessee (you) and the landlord or freeholder. It is crucial to familiarise yourself with your lease, as it contains specific covenants and defines your rights and obligations. Each lease can vary, and it’s important to understand the particulars as they apply to your development.

So it's a "binding document" not something that can be just varied by some two bit parking company appointed by them!