Bank refusing refund for patio works not carried out

visidigi

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud - because he's not settled or resolved existing debt. Get him to respond to a quote, get him to attend a local, but unknown address, and a bit of sitting waiting for him to turn up to said address to give a new quote - you then see him turn up and still doing this bait and switch, follow him at a safe distance and find out where hes now based.

A bit unnecessary, but it would confirm he's still being naughty and also would eventually prove to him you're not just going to take this one lying down. 

Its all too easy for him to just say not at this address and park round the corner otherwise.

gilbo47

visidigi said:

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud - because he's not settled or resolved existing debt. Get him to respond to a quote, get him to attend a local, but unknown address, and a bit of sitting waiting for him to turn up to said address to give a new quote - you then see him turn up and still doing this bait and switch, follow him at a safe distance and find out where hes now based.

A bit unnecessary, but it would confirm he's still being naughty and also would eventually prove to him you're not just going to take this one lying down. 

Its all too easy for him to just say not at this address and park round the corner otherwise.

Thanks. There's no hope of contacting him. He really has "disappeared". I have tried all that. But I could at the very least try that angle of fraud with my banks complaint dept when I talk to them. 

user1977

visidigi said:

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud

Not sure why you think that would that assist any of his debtors? Fraud is a criminal offence, not something which helps anybody get their money back.

visidigi

user1977 said:

visidigi said:

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud

Not sure why you think that would that assist any of his debtors? Fraud is a criminal offence, not something which helps anybody get their money back.

So maybe fraud is the wrong word to use here  - Intentionally taking money for work you have no intention of completing is theft - I don't see why we would just be advising the OP to chalk it up and move on - would you?

MattMattMattUK

visidigi said:

user1977 said:

visidigi said:

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud

Not sure why you think that would that assist any of his debtors? Fraud is a criminal offence, not something which helps anybody get their money back.

So maybe fraud is the wrong word to use here  - Intentionally taking money for work you have no intention of completing is theft - I don't see why we would just be advising the OP to chalk it up and move on - would you?

No one is advising them to chalk it up and move it on, but the bank refund process is the incorrect method to take. 

visidigi

MattMattMattUK said:

visidigi said:

user1977 said:

visidigi said:

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud

Not sure why you think that would that assist any of his debtors? Fraud is a criminal offence, not something which helps anybody get their money back.

So maybe fraud is the wrong word to use here  - Intentionally taking money for work you have no intention of completing is theft - I don't see why we would just be advising the OP to chalk it up and move on - would you?

No one is advising them to chalk it up and move it on, but the bank refund process is the incorrect method to take. 

then someones confusing what I am saying with someone else - I didn't say it was a bank refund process case (at all!) nor APP.

gilbo47

MattMattMattUK said:

visidigi said:

user1977 said:

visidigi said:

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud

Not sure why you think that would that assist any of his debtors? Fraud is a criminal offence, not something which helps anybody get their money back.

So maybe fraud is the wrong word to use here  - Intentionally taking money for work you have no intention of completing is theft - I don't see why we would just be advising the OP to chalk it up and move on - would you?

No one is advising them to chalk it up and move it on, but the bank refund process is the incorrect method to take. 

I think the implication from others is that ccj procedure is best fit for my particular scenario, however in all probability, all things considered it would probably be fruitless and to therefore chalk it up.

user1977

visidigi said:

user1977 said:

visidigi said:

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud

Not sure why you think that would that assist any of his debtors? Fraud is a criminal offence, not something which helps anybody get their money back.

So maybe fraud is the wrong word to use here  - Intentionally taking money for work you have no intention of completing is theft - I don't see why we would just be advising the OP to chalk it up and move on - would you?

The same point applies - arguing that it’s “theft” isn’t going to get the OP anywhere, even if it is (and I really doubt it comes anywhere near it).

visidigi

user1977 said:

visidigi said:

user1977 said:

visidigi said:

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud

Not sure why you think that would that assist any of his debtors? Fraud is a criminal offence, not something which helps anybody get their money back.

So maybe fraud is the wrong word to use here  - Intentionally taking money for work you have no intention of completing is theft - I don't see why we would just be advising the OP to chalk it up and move on - would you?

The same point applies - arguing that it’s “theft” isn’t going to get the OP anywhere, even if it is (and I really doubt it comes anywhere near it).

I don't mean arguing with the bank! Why is everyone aligning this to what the bank should be responsible for? It's clear the bank has absolutely no involvement in this (as was clarified many posts ago).

The OP has been ripped off, hasn't got the service they paid for and is now being ghosted. They should be able to report this fraud/theft like any other case - be that action fraud, trading standards etc - even if it doesn't get the OP's money back you wont stop people doing this to others unless its actually reported.

sheramber

visidigi said:

user1977 said:

visidigi said:

user1977 said:

visidigi said:

eskbanker said:

visidigi said:

Have they stopped responding to you? (the builder?) I would be tempted to get a PAYG sim for a phone and send them a message from a new number and ask them for a quote - see if they take up the offer...then go to the police with the evidence.

No harm in doing that to establish contactability but surely it would need to be significantly further along before it would cross the threshold from civil dispute into criminal fraud, enough to get the police interested?

So my thinking was it shows intent to defraud

Not sure why you think that would that assist any of his debtors? Fraud is a criminal offence, not something which helps anybody get their money back.

So maybe fraud is the wrong word to use here  - Intentionally taking money for work you have no intention of completing is theft - I don't see why we would just be advising the OP to chalk it up and move on - would you?

The same point applies - arguing that it’s “theft” isn’t going to get the OP anywhere, even if it is (and I really doubt it comes anywhere near it).

I don't mean arguing with the bank! Why is everyone aligning this to what the bank should be responsible for? It's clear the bank has absolutely no involvement in this (as was clarified many posts ago).

The OP has been ripped off, hasn't got the service they paid for and is now being ghosted. They should be able to report this fraud/theft like any other case - be that action fraud, trading standards etc - even if it doesn't get the OP's money back you wont stop people doing this to others unless its actually reported.

Did you read the first post?

People are arguing   about the bank responsibility because the OP ‘s post was complaining that the bank wouldn’t refund him.