Oops. TV licence saw ITV on the telly.

prowla

Grumpy_chap said:

prowla said:

the TV Licensing page refers to "watch", but the law itself says "installed or used".

The law seems clear.
The website is only guidance.

I think trying to draw a distinction between "watch" and "installed or used" or, in the OP's case "received and displayed live broadcast TV but only for background noise but did not watch anything" are simply nonsense. 

Unless, the OP, when "accidentally" disconnecting the HDMI lead and "accidentally" connecting the TV aerial and "accidentally" completing the tuning set up and "accidentally" switching to the third channel (ITV) but all just for some background noise but definitely not watching anything so I assume the OP had covered the screen with a blanket (which we know was not the case because the TV Inspector saw the live stream daytime TV through the window) or was wearing eye masks.
Frankly, should TV Licensing take action, would the OP really expect the court to accept all those "accidental" events?

With all those "accidental" things going on, I'd hate to be the OP's insurer for anything

(I agree - I'm having a similar "discussion" elsewhere regarding the Highway Code vs. the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, but in the opposite direction, ie. the HC says things the law doesn't.)

Arguably TV Licensing are the point of contact for licensing and they only talk about watching and they don't refer to the law anywhere I could see, so therefore joe-public could be forgiven for taking that the rules they must follow is they can connect but not watch.

However, in the OP's case, they had the TV set up so they could watch live TV and then somehow managed to find themselves having live TV on their telly because their laptop cable became unplugged (eg. pulled out whilst hoovering).

Now, the OP's issue is that the TV licence man happened to knock on the door at the precise point in time that the TV accidentally started showing The Chase on ITV, which might seem mightily suspicious to someone of a suspicious mind (uh-huh).

If the OP is able to buy their licence (or three of them!), then they're on a monthly basis and so perhaps they might expect to be given some leeway given they'd recently moved in.

OTOH, arguably the law's definition of the "receiver" being "installed" should include all of the components necessary to receive, and in particular the aerial; thereby the act of not connecting it in means it is not capable of receiving and is thereby not a receiver and thus the messages is don't plug in the TV aerial if you haven't got a licence.

PPCDefeater

prowla said:

Grumpy_chap said:

prowla said:

the TV Licensing page refers to "watch", but the law itself says "installed or used".

The law seems clear.
The website is only guidance.

I think trying to draw a distinction between "watch" and "installed or used" or, in the OP's case "received and displayed live broadcast TV but only for background noise but did not watch anything" are simply nonsense. 

Unless, the OP, when "accidentally" disconnecting the HDMI lead and "accidentally" connecting the TV aerial and "accidentally" completing the tuning set up and "accidentally" switching to the third channel (ITV) but all just for some background noise but definitely not watching anything so I assume the OP had covered the screen with a blanket (which we know was not the case because the TV Inspector saw the live stream daytime TV through the window) or was wearing eye masks.
Frankly, should TV Licensing take action, would the OP really expect the court to accept all those "accidental" events?

With all those "accidental" things going on, I'd hate to be the OP's insurer for anything

(I agree - I'm having a similar "discussion" elsewhere regarding the Highway Code vs. the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, but in the opposite direction, ie. the HC says things the law doesn't.)

Arguably TV Licensing are the point of contact for licensing and they only talk about watching and they don't refer to the law anywhere I could see, so therefore joe-public could be forgiven for taking that the rules they must follow is they can connect but not watch.

However, in the OP's case, they had the TV set up so they could watch live TV and then somehow managed to find themselves having live TV on their telly because their laptop cable became unplugged (eg. pulled out whilst hoovering).

Now, the OP's issue is that the TV licence man happened to knock on the door at the precise point in time that the TV accidentally started showing The Chase on ITV, which might seem mightily suspicious to someone of a suspicious mind (uh-huh).

If the OP is able to buy their licence (or three of them!), then they're on a monthly basis and so perhaps they might expect to be given some leeway given they'd recently moved in.

OTOH, arguably the law's definition of the "receiver" being "installed" should include all of the components necessary to receive, and in particular the aerial; thereby the act of not connecting it in means it is not capable of receiving and is thereby not a receiver and thus the messages is don't plug in the TV aerial if you haven't got a licence.

Amen.

So the funds ended up bouncing back into my account and therefore no licence was bought. No one has visited the property in some time now. The aerial for the sake of this argument is now disconnected. (Bearing in mind it's still going to be tucked behind the TV incase I suddenly change my mind and decide I want to buy a licence and watch TV again). 

For now, I'm guna declare that I need no TV licence.

Cornucopia

PPCDefeater said:

prowla said:

Grumpy_chap said:

prowla said:

the TV Licensing page refers to "watch", but the law itself says "installed or used".

The law seems clear.
The website is only guidance.

I think trying to draw a distinction between "watch" and "installed or used" or, in the OP's case "received and displayed live broadcast TV but only for background noise but did not watch anything" are simply nonsense. 

Unless, the OP, when "accidentally" disconnecting the HDMI lead and "accidentally" connecting the TV aerial and "accidentally" completing the tuning set up and "accidentally" switching to the third channel (ITV) but all just for some background noise but definitely not watching anything so I assume the OP had covered the screen with a blanket (which we know was not the case because the TV Inspector saw the live stream daytime TV through the window) or was wearing eye masks.
Frankly, should TV Licensing take action, would the OP really expect the court to accept all those "accidental" events?

With all those "accidental" things going on, I'd hate to be the OP's insurer for anything

(I agree - I'm having a similar "discussion" elsewhere regarding the Highway Code vs. the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, but in the opposite direction, ie. the HC says things the law doesn't.)

Arguably TV Licensing are the point of contact for licensing and they only talk about watching and they don't refer to the law anywhere I could see, so therefore joe-public could be forgiven for taking that the rules they must follow is they can connect but not watch.

However, in the OP's case, they had the TV set up so they could watch live TV and then somehow managed to find themselves having live TV on their telly because their laptop cable became unplugged (eg. pulled out whilst hoovering).

Now, the OP's issue is that the TV licence man happened to knock on the door at the precise point in time that the TV accidentally started showing The Chase on ITV, which might seem mightily suspicious to someone of a suspicious mind (uh-huh).

If the OP is able to buy their licence (or three of them!), then they're on a monthly basis and so perhaps they might expect to be given some leeway given they'd recently moved in.

OTOH, arguably the law's definition of the "receiver" being "installed" should include all of the components necessary to receive, and in particular the aerial; thereby the act of not connecting it in means it is not capable of receiving and is thereby not a receiver and thus the messages is don't plug in the TV aerial if you haven't got a licence.

For now, I'm guna declare that I need no TV licence.

It's your prerogative to do this, but it isn't legally required.

Grumpy_chap

prowla said:

Arguably TV Licensing are the point of contact for licensing and they only talk about watching and they don't refer to the law anywhere I could see, so therefore joe-public could be forgiven for taking that the rules they must follow is they can connect but not watch.

The OP's argument here does, rather, seem to be not whether they had the system connected but not watching, but that they had the system connected and receiving live TV broadcast, but the OP was not "watching" the TV, only listening as background noise.  That is a very tough distinction to sell.

PPCDefeater said:

The aerial for the sake of this argument is now disconnected. 

So you mean it is not actually disconnected...  Only disconnected for the sake of the argument's discussion.

PPCDefeater

Grumpy_chap said:

prowla said:

Arguably TV Licensing are the point of contact for licensing and they only talk about watching and they don't refer to the law anywhere I could see, so therefore joe-public could be forgiven for taking that the rules they must follow is they can connect but not watch.

The OP's argument here does, rather, seem to be not whether they had the system connected but not watching, but that they had the system connected and receiving live TV broadcast, but the OP was not "watching" the TV, only listening as background noise.  That is a very tough distinction to sell.

PPCDefeater said:

The aerial for the sake of this argument is now disconnected. 

So you mean it is not actually disconnected...  Only disconnected for the sake of the argument's discussion.

Sorry I mean from now on, the aerial is disconnected. 

It's still there, behind the telly, I can connect it in future if I want a licence and want to start receiving broadcasts again. It's just a bit of a faff getting my hand round the back that's all.

Also it still appears that you forget I initially wasn't receiving any broadcasts or intended to as I only had youtube running playing music. 

Mutton_Geoff

Dobbibill said:

He's unlikely to know if it was The Chase live or The Chase on ITVX so I wouldn't worry too much if it was a one off. That's if he even looked through the window.

The ITV logo displayed on screen differs between live TV and ITVX.

I believe they can't look through windows and use this as evidence. Almost every single conviction is by self incrimination by signing their paperwork.

"Hello, who are you?"
"TV Licensing"
"No thank you"
(sound if door closing)