Oops. TV licence saw ITV on the telly.

prowla

So, the aerial being plugged in meant that the TV was in a position whereby it could be accidentally turned on to receive broadcast.

Therefore unplugging it mitigates against that risk.

Interestingly, the TV licence rules do say you need a licence to watch (or record) TV channels.

So, having one on just to listen to doesn't require one.

(They still try and sell a licence to blind people though...)

Cornucopia

prowla said:

So, the aerial being plugged in meant that the TV was in a position whereby it could be accidentally turned on to receive broadcast.

Therefore unplugging it mitigates against that risk.

Interestingly, the TV licence rules do say you need a licence to watch (or record) TV channels.

So, having one on just to listen to doesn't require one.

(They still try and sell a licence to blind people though...)

TV Licensing do not make the law, though.   It is a Licence for reception.

The Blind Person's discount is 50%, and that is set in legislation.

jbrassy

This is honestly the most ridiculous excuse ever. Just because you only listen to live TV while tidying, it still means you are consuming live TV and you need a licence for it. The law is quite clear on that. 

It's a bit like walking into the cinema and not paying for a ticket because you were doing work on your laptop while the film was playing. 

prowla

Cornucopia said:

prowla said:

So, the aerial being plugged in meant that the TV was in a position whereby it could be accidentally turned on to receive broadcast.

Therefore unplugging it mitigates against that risk.

Interestingly, the TV licence rules do say you need a licence to watch (or record) TV channels.

So, having one on just to listen to doesn't require one.

(They still try and sell a licence to blind people though...)

TV Licensing do not make the law, though.   It is a Licence for reception.

The Blind Person's discount is 50%, and that is set in legislation.

Thanks for correcting that!

The law is at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/part/4

vacheron

jbrassy said:

This is honestly the most ridiculous excuse ever. Just because you only listen to live TV while tidying, it still means you are consuming live TV and you need a licence for it. The law is quite clear on that. 

It's a bit like walking into the cinema and not paying for a ticket because you were doing work on your laptop while the film was playing. 

I thought so too, but then when I looked a the TV Licence site and other credible websites, they do indeed all use the term "Watch" TV rather than "play" or "recieve" TV. So I didn't comment further. 

If you can find a site that says "consume" TV then fair enough,but even TV itself stands for "teleVISION" with no mention of audio, so possibly less cut and dried that it logically appears? 


From the TV licencing website:

When don’t I need a licence to watch TV?
You don’t need a TV Licence if you never watch live on any channel, pay TV service or streaming service, or use BBC iPlayer*.
This includes recording and downloading. On any device.

The op was apparently doing none of these!
 

jbrassy

Section 363 of the Communications Act 2003 says the following:

(1)A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under this Part.

(2)A person who installs or uses a television receiver in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

The law has nothing to do with 'watching'. It's is about whether someone installs and used a TV receiver which the OP has admitted to doing. The OP broke the law.

Source: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/363

PPCDefeater

jbrassy said:

Section 363 of the Communications Act 2003 says the following:

(1)A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under this Part.

(2)A person who installs or uses a television receiver in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

The law has nothing to do with 'watching'. It's is about whether someone installs and used a TV receiver which the OP has admitted to doing. The OP broke the law.

Source: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/363

And the rest mate 😆

The term "television receiver" is further defined in the Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 as:

"Any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving... any television programme service." 

LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

Sorry, but your logic is flawed and this "law" is outdated.

It was written when TVs, aerials, and set-top boxes were the only way to receive broadcast, back in 2003. Smartphones, tablets, and streaming didn’t exist then. If simply owning a device that can receive a broadcast required a licence, which includes youtube being pre-installed on practically everything, every phone owner in the UK would need one, which isn’t how it works.

The focus IS ON usage and intent, not capability. Forget how the TV came on—it was an accident, it doesn’t matter. There was no intention to watch, so no, I did not break the law. I don’t watch live TV, record, or use iPlayer. The TV came on once—am I supposed to pay £28 a month for that? Of course not. At most, I’d pay for a single month, declare I don’t need it, and move on.

Also, if you actually read the full thread, you’d see I’ve tried to pay three times already. Am I really going to call them to cancel the payment or just wait to see if it bounces back? The aerial will stay disconnected. If I ever want to watch a single football match, then the option is there, without having to faff around with cables, I’d pay for that month and cancel. If it’s not being used, a licence isn’t required. 

PPCDefeater

Intent of use - To use my telly for background noise/music so I've went out of my way to connect it to my computer with youtube running.

How the live TV was broadcasted -
HDMI was knocked and the source input changed. Its a thing, TVs do this.

Aerial always plugged in - because it can be if I want it to be. Means nothing.

Cornucopia

jbrassy said:

Section 363 of the Communications Act 2003 says the following:

(1)A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under this Part.

(2)A person who installs or uses a television receiver in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

The law has nothing to do with 'watching'. It's is about whether someone installs and used a TV receiver...

Exactly.

It is a Licence for reception, and we/MSE shouldn't be encouraging any alternative ideas that are wrong, and could potentially lead to law breaking (with its various consequences).

jbrassy

PPCDefeater said:

jbrassy said:

Section 363 of the Communications Act 2003 says the following:

(1)A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under this Part.

(2)A person who installs or uses a television receiver in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

The law has nothing to do with 'watching'. It's is about whether someone installs and used a TV receiver which the OP has admitted to doing. The OP broke the law.

Source: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/363

And the rest mate 😆

The term "television receiver" is further defined in the Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 as:

"Any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving... any television programme service." 

LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

Sorry, but your logic is flawed and this "law" is outdated.

It was written when TVs, aerials, and set-top boxes were the only way to receive broadcast, back in 2003. Smartphones, tablets, and streaming didn’t exist then. If simply owning a device that can receive a broadcast required a licence, which includes youtube being pre-installed on practically everything, every phone owner in the UK would need one, which isn’t how it works.

The focus IS ON usage and intent, not capability. Forget how the TV came on—it was an accident, it doesn’t matter. There was no intention to watch, so no, I did not break the law. I don’t watch live TV, record, or use iPlayer. The TV came on once—am I supposed to pay £28 a month for that? Of course not. At most, I’d pay for a single month, declare I don’t need it, and move on.

Also, if you actually read the full thread, you’d see I’ve tried to pay three times already. Am I really going to call them to cancel the payment or just wait to see if it bounces back? The aerial will stay disconnected. If I ever want to watch a single football match, then the option is there, without having to faff around with cables, I’d pay for that month and cancel. If it’s not being used, a licence isn’t required. 

I think your argument is flawed, this passage:
"Any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving... any television programme service."

The term "apparatus" has not been narrowly defined to mean only televisions. It could mean a tablet or laptop. The law is not outdated. 

In terms of what you should do, there are two options:
1 - pay for a TV licence and watch TV and BBC IPlayer 
2 - don't buy a TV licence, and unplug the aerial from your TV and don't watch BBC iPlayer.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any legal qualifications? Or are you a keyboard lawyer?