Leasehold property information availability

AlphaCentauri

user1977 said:

AlphaCentauri said:

My property is listed under the 'C: Charges Register' and there's a reference for my landlord, which I listed earlier.

What you've pasted is the title for the head lease. You need to download the title for the relevant sublease. That will give the details of what your landlord owns. 

Yes, correct, that is the head lease and my landlord is listed as a sub-lease as I've explained several times in the thread.  There is no further information on the property register.

Tiglet2

AlphaCentauri said:

Tiglet2 said:

AlphaCentauri said:

user1977 said:

You haven’t downloaded the full information for your landlord’s lease. Go back to HM Land Registry and get it.

Register summary

Title number

XXXXXXXXXX

Registered owners

XXXXXXXXXX LIMITED

XXXXXXXXXXLondon XXXXXXXXXX 

B: Proprietorship Register

This register specifies the class of title and identifies the owner. It contains any entries that affect the right of disposal.

Class of Title: Title absolute

Entry number

Entry date

PROPRIETOR: XXXXXXXXXX

1

1970-01-22

XXXXXXXXXX.

2

C: Charges Register

4

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 1 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX: 06.03.1933 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 2 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 22.08.1933 Term : 99 years from 26.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX NOTE 1: By a Deed dated 14 January 2000 made

5

between (1) XXXXXXXXXX

6

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 4 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 16.11.1933 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

7

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 7 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX : 29.07.1936 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1934 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

8

Registration Date : 24.06.1974 Plan Reference : 9 Property Description :XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 26.04.1974 Term : 135 years from 24.6.1973 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

OP, is your property one of the listed titles in the Charges Register at points 4 - 8?  Which one? 

For example, let's suppose your property is number 6, if the Lessee's title number stated there is not the same as the title number for the register you are quoting from, then you need to obtain a copy of the register of the Lessee's title number listed at number 6 of the Charges Register.  That title will give you the name of the landlord/owner.

Yes, my landlord is one of those.  There is NO further information on the Property Register other than what I have posted.

There is NO further information on THAT Property Register, because you need the register for the landlord's title (listed at numbers 4-8).

AlphaCentauri

I'm currently in communication with the head lease holder and the landlord trying to get more paperwork.  Needless to say, they're not easy to deal with, which is why I'm trying to find the information myself.

In the property register, in addition to the Leasehold details, which I've posted, there is an entry for Freehold.  I purchased a copy of this in the hope it may contain information.  It showed the freehold is owned by a local Trust which I know is a big influence in the local area.  I'll contact them tomorrow to see if they can help.

AlphaCentauri

Tiglet2 said:

AlphaCentauri said:

Tiglet2 said:

AlphaCentauri said:

user1977 said:

You haven’t downloaded the full information for your landlord’s lease. Go back to HM Land Registry and get it.

Register summary

Title number

XXXXXXXXXX

Registered owners

XXXXXXXXXX LIMITED

XXXXXXXXXXLondon XXXXXXXXXX 

B: Proprietorship Register

This register specifies the class of title and identifies the owner. It contains any entries that affect the right of disposal.

Class of Title: Title absolute

Entry number

Entry date

PROPRIETOR: XXXXXXXXXX

1

1970-01-22

XXXXXXXXXX.

2

C: Charges Register

4

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 1 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX: 06.03.1933 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 2 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 22.08.1933 Term : 99 years from 26.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX NOTE 1: By a Deed dated 14 January 2000 made

5

between (1) XXXXXXXXXX

6

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 4 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 16.11.1933 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

7

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 7 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX : 29.07.1936 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1934 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

8

Registration Date : 24.06.1974 Plan Reference : 9 Property Description :XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 26.04.1974 Term : 135 years from 24.6.1973 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

OP, is your property one of the listed titles in the Charges Register at points 4 - 8?  Which one? 

For example, let's suppose your property is number 6, if the Lessee's title number stated there is not the same as the title number for the register you are quoting from, then you need to obtain a copy of the register of the Lessee's title number listed at number 6 of the Charges Register.  That title will give you the name of the landlord/owner.

Yes, my landlord is one of those.  There is NO further information on the Property Register other than what I have posted.

There is NO further information on THAT Property Register, because you need the register for the landlord's title (listed at numbers 4-8).

OK, so where do I find that register then if it's not listed in the Property Register?

To be clear, I'm only going from my specific address and where it leads into the property register.  This is the entry for my specific address.  It's also the same entry for the flat below and the shop below that.  Obviously, in the past the ownership structure was ground floor shop leases with flats above, and a number for each separate shop lease.

Tiglet2

AlphaCentauri said:

Tiglet2 said:

AlphaCentauri said:

Tiglet2 said:

AlphaCentauri said:

user1977 said:

You haven’t downloaded the full information for your landlord’s lease. Go back to HM Land Registry and get it.

Register summary

Title number

XXXXXXXXXX

Registered owners

XXXXXXXXXX LIMITED

XXXXXXXXXXLondon XXXXXXXXXX 

B: Proprietorship Register

This register specifies the class of title and identifies the owner. It contains any entries that affect the right of disposal.

Class of Title: Title absolute

Entry number

Entry date

PROPRIETOR: XXXXXXXXXX

1

1970-01-22

XXXXXXXXXX.

2

C: Charges Register

4

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 1 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX: 06.03.1933 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 2 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 22.08.1933 Term : 99 years from 26.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX NOTE 1: By a Deed dated 14 January 2000 made

5

between (1) XXXXXXXXXX

6

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 4 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 16.11.1933 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

7

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 7 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX : 29.07.1936 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1934 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

8

Registration Date : 24.06.1974 Plan Reference : 9 Property Description :XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 26.04.1974 Term : 135 years from 24.6.1973 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

OP, is your property one of the listed titles in the Charges Register at points 4 - 8?  Which one? 

For example, let's suppose your property is number 6, if the Lessee's title number stated there is not the same as the title number for the register you are quoting from, then you need to obtain a copy of the register of the Lessee's title number listed at number 6 of the Charges Register.  That title will give you the name of the landlord/owner.

Yes, my landlord is one of those.  There is NO further information on the Property Register other than what I have posted.

There is NO further information on THAT Property Register, because you need the register for the landlord's title (listed at numbers 4-8).

OK, so where do I find that register then if it's not listed in the Property Register?

Search by the title number shown on the register at Nos. 4-8 (whichever is the correct address of the property, as I'm assuming all titles are for different flats under the same ownership as the head lease).

AlphaCentauri

Tiglet2 said:

AlphaCentauri said:

Tiglet2 said:

AlphaCentauri said:

Tiglet2 said:

AlphaCentauri said:

user1977 said:

You haven’t downloaded the full information for your landlord’s lease. Go back to HM Land Registry and get it.

Register summary

Title number

XXXXXXXXXX

Registered owners

XXXXXXXXXX LIMITED

XXXXXXXXXXLondon XXXXXXXXXX 

B: Proprietorship Register

This register specifies the class of title and identifies the owner. It contains any entries that affect the right of disposal.

Class of Title: Title absolute

Entry number

Entry date

PROPRIETOR: XXXXXXXXXX

1

1970-01-22

XXXXXXXXXX.

2

C: Charges Register

4

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 1 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX: 06.03.1933 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 2 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 22.08.1933 Term : 99 years from 26.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX NOTE 1: By a Deed dated 14 January 2000 made

5

between (1) XXXXXXXXXX

6

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 4 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 16.11.1933 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1931 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

7

Registration Date : 22.01.1970 Plan Reference : 7 Property Description : XXXXXXXXXX : 29.07.1936 Term : 99 years from 24.6.1934 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

8

Registration Date : 24.06.1974 Plan Reference : 9 Property Description :XXXXXXXXXX Date of Lease : 26.04.1974 Term : 135 years from 24.6.1973 Lessee's Title : XXXXXXXXXX

OP, is your property one of the listed titles in the Charges Register at points 4 - 8?  Which one? 

For example, let's suppose your property is number 6, if the Lessee's title number stated there is not the same as the title number for the register you are quoting from, then you need to obtain a copy of the register of the Lessee's title number listed at number 6 of the Charges Register.  That title will give you the name of the landlord/owner.

Yes, my landlord is one of those.  There is NO further information on the Property Register other than what I have posted.

There is NO further information on THAT Property Register, because you need the register for the landlord's title (listed at numbers 4-8).

OK, so where do I find that register then if it's not listed in the Property Register?

Search by the title number shown on the register at Nos. 4-8 (whichever is the correct address of the property, as I'm assuming all titles are for different flats under the same ownership as the head lease).

OK, I did exactly what you said - searched by Lessee Title.  The register then said there are documents for this number but I'm sure it'll just default back to the original listing of the main leaseholder i.e. it'll be a waste of £7.

AlphaCentauri

Tiglet2!!!!  You are a legend!  It worked exactly how you said.  My landlord's name is listed with the lessee title reference.  This should solve my problem.  A THOUSAND THANKS!!!!  AMEN TO YOU!

Tiglet2

AlphaCentauri said:

Tiglet2!!!!  You are a legend!  It worked exactly how you said.  My landlord's name is listed with the lessee title reference.  This should solve my problem.  A THOUSAND THANKS!!!!  AMEN TO YOU!

Yay!!  Got there in the end.....

AlphaCentauri

Hi again.  I presented the new title to the scheme but they've flagged another listing issue.

The new title only lists one address under 'Lessee title XXXX' i.e. just the number for the ground floor shop and not the 2 flats above.  On the main leaseholder title, it shows 'Lessee title XXXX' as same owner of all 3 units.  I tried to point this out to them but they're stalling.  They've requested a legal statement from my landlord which I'm waiting on.

I don't think they can legally refute my demonstrating the ownership of the title although I admit it is opaque.  

user1977

Sounds like you've picked the wrong sublease to download - isn't your flat one of the other ones?