Airline responsibility to unwell passenger?

Voyager2002

What obligations, if any, does an airline have to a passenger whom they deem unfit to fly?

This happened to an acquaintance, so details are sketchy:

A retired gentleman flew to another continent for the weekend to attend a church event. He flew economy and was exhausted by the journey, but struggled through the event and the various meetings. He decided to pay to upgrade to Business class for the journey home, feeling that he really needed the extra comfort and the opportunity to rest.

After boarding but before take-off, the cabin crew determined that he was not fit to fly. (I know nothing about the reasons for this, apart from the details above, but I am confident that intoxication was not an issue.) He was removed from the 'plane and dumped on a bench in the airport. No attempt was made to arrange accommodation for him, and there was no question of him needing hospital treatment. As it happened all hotels in the city were fully booked for a conference, so in the end he was able to stay with a church-related acquaintance, but no thanks to the airline!

He then attempted to resume his journey, and was told that since he had already used his (very expensive) ticket he needed to buy a completely new one to get home... and of course there was no refund!

Did the airline behave properly, and does he have any redress?

(It does seem that the decision that he was unfit to fly was wrong, but how to contest that? Of course, if he was actually well enough to travel then travel insurance is unlikely to help...)

elsien

it’s hard to comment without knowing what the specific reason was that the airline felt that he was unfit to fly. I think if I had been turfed off a flight for that reason I would at the least try and find a doctor to check me out and to get evidence either way. 

Wonka_2

Depending on the airport/airline this is likely to be handled in different ways but it really needs the reason to know whether the actions were appropriate. 

Assuming intoxication wasn’t the reason and he passed the attitude test (i.e. was cooperative) then, assuming a mainstream carrier/location, I’d expect some duty of care/assistance to be provided. 

Depending on desired outcome at this stage then some contact with the airline wight explain the actions further and open a dialogue re recompense for the new flight. 

I’ve only had the experience once and was lucky enough to have a corporate travel company in the background to help me to resolve/escape the country 

MattMattMattUK

As others have said it depends on lots of things, but being deemed unfit to fly is generally something for travel insurance not the airline.

lisyloo

There's got to be more to this story.
People fly very tired all the time due to time zone differences.
Many take a blanket and try to sleep.

Could he have been displaying any behaviour (like slurred speech) that gave the impression he was drunk.
If they think someone is intoxicated then I wouldn't think they have any obligations.

The being tired/exhausted doesn't add up.
Those people fly all the time and are generally quiet and no trouble at all.
The airline clearly had a reason.

twopenny

The reason should have been stated as if he'd boarded the plane there would have been a discussion with the cabin crew as to why he was to get up and leave his seat.

They don't just unseat you, wizz you around  with nothing said.

There are a number of reasons why you can be removed from a plane. If we dismiss alchohol and violence then having health concerns that may require medical attention during the flight, poor hygiene, not complying with crews instructions ie not buckling your seat belt.

It does sound as though he'd trawled through the weekend exhausing himself. Was his appearance, hygiene and apparantly unwell be the cause?

If he was going to this trouble for a church event was he looking anxious and praying? Sounds simple but I did see someone rocking and praying that was 'detained' onboard for behavioural concerns

bagand96

The other side to the coin is the responsibility the airline has to an unwell passenger on board their aircraft in flight.  An aircraft in flight is not a good place to be for someone who isn't well or who's health is deteriorating quickly. Whilst cabin crew are at least first aid trained, and they can always ask "if there is a medical professional on board can they make themselves known to a member of crew" you're still a long way from comprehensive medical care. 

As well as the risk to unwell passengers, airlines also have commercial considerations, diversions are expensive and disruptive.

Interesting question though that if the airline decides you're not well enough to travel, do they have any responsibility? In terms of immediate medical care I'd expect ground staff to arrange whatever first aid is available at the airport and take it from there. In terms of accomodation and rearranging onward travel, I would expect that to be a travel insurance claim. If you fell sick before travelling to the airport the airline has no responsibility toward you.  I'm not sure that changes just because you've elected to check in and board/attempt to board the flight. 

I don't think airlines take these decisions lightly or without credible concern. But if the passenger disputes it then getting a medical check would be sensible if they wished to challenge. 

Grumpy_chap

Voyager2002 said:

What obligations, if any, does an airline have to a passenger whom they deem unfit to fly?

This happened to an acquaintance, so details are sketchy:

A retired gentleman flew to another continent for the weekend to attend a church event. He flew economy and was exhausted by the journey, but struggled through the event and the various meetings. He decided to pay to upgrade to Business class for the journey home, feeling that he really needed the extra comfort and the opportunity to rest.

After boarding but before take-off, the cabin crew determined that he was not fit to fly. (I know nothing about the reasons for this, apart from the details above, but I am confident that intoxication was not an issue.) He was removed from the 'plane and dumped on a bench in the airport. No attempt was made to arrange accommodation for him, and there was no question of him needing hospital treatment. As it happened all hotels in the city were fully booked for a conference, so in the end he was able to stay with a church-related acquaintance, but no thanks to the airline!

He then attempted to resume his journey, and was told that since he had already used his (very expensive) ticket he needed to buy a completely new one to get home... and of course there was no refund!

Did the airline behave properly, and does he have any redress?

(It does seem that the decision that he was unfit to fly was wrong, but how to contest that? Of course, if he was actually well enough to travel then travel insurance is unlikely to help...)

Why are you confident that intoxication was not an issue?

On what basis has it been assessed that the decision he was unfit to fly was wrong?

Establishing the facts are going to be critical here in the context of any potential claim against the airline and / or travel insurance claim.  Without the facts, nothing can be progressed and there is little that anyone can do within this forum to give meaningful advice.

Is it absolutely certain that the airline gave no information at all about the passenger's health and reasons for determining not fit to fly?  I find that quite hard to comprehend.  Unless the issue was intoxication, I would expect the airline if deeming a passenger medically unfit to provide some kind of handover to ground staff - even if only to protect the airline's PI.

Here is another interpretation of what happened.  I can't say this is what happened but it is a postulation as good as any other in the absence of the facts:

• Individual is exhausted following long journey and weekend activities - not able to rest and recover form the outbound flight ahead of inbound flight.  (Query - does this in itself indicate a possible health issue?)
• Individual upgrades flight class for extra comfort on the return flight.
• Individual takes full advantage of the lounge bar before flight.
• Individual boards the plane, is exhausted and possibly disruptive in some way on boarding leading flight crew to determine intoxicated and remove individual from the flight.
• Individual is removed to sleep it off, and sits on a bench, reason for not being allowed to fly is explained but individual fails to properly register because of health / intoxicated state.  (Query - if the individual was not intoxicated but removed from a flight as unfit to fly, would the individual not then seek some medical attention / check up?)

I am not saying my filling in the gaps is what happened but, from the scant detail available, is as plausible a filling in the gaps as the OP's filling in the gaps.

The OP needs to get accurate information first before the individual can be advised further.

eskbanker

No particular reason to suspect that it was BA (although obviously not a low cost carrier if flying business) but their list of reasons for denying carriage extends to no less than 39 separate entries, in section 7a at:

https://www.britishairways.com/content/information/legal/conditions-of-carriage/general-conditions-of-carriage

and other airlines are likely to be similar, so that may be worth perusing to see if any could have applied?

If it was a British or EU airline, he should have GDPR subject access rights to get hold of the airline's reasoning, although has he actually complained to the airline yet?

jimi_man

Hi. From a crew perspective (my wife is recently retired BA crew), if the person was unwell then medical attention would generally have been sought. If the person was disruptive then usually (not always) the police are called. If they are drunk then generally they are just kicked off.

As others have said it's impossible to comment without details but it seems to be pointing towards alcohol as the issue. Combined with exhaustion, whilst he may not have felt drunk, the crew may have determined his behaviour as such.

It's also, on BA at least, the Captains decision - not the cabin crew. 

Grumpy_chap

jimi_man said:

It's also, on BA at least, the Captains decision - not the cabin crew. 

That might well be semantics - the Captain will make any decision based on the reports received from the Cabin Crew.

Requiring a passenger to leave a flight is something which I understand to be quite a rare event.  It makes me think that there really must be more to this than the "left dumped on a bench" report.  If the passenger is not being allowed to fly for medical reasons, then the Flight Crew need to make arrangements for the passenger to leave the plane, take any hand luggage, and also unload any hold luggage.  Clearly, the passenger is air side when this happens, so needs to be escorted back land side by appropriate officials.  That is likely to be either security / Police or medical transfer.  Flight Crew are not medically qualified but will be aware through their training that some medical conditions can present in a similar manner to intoxication so I would still expect, even when intoxication is suspected, that the Flight Crew would arrange for the passenger to be handed over to a medic of some level.

It really does seem as though there is some missing details from the initial OP.