What's the best Amex and non-Amex credit card combination

WillPS

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

Obviously this should be heavily caveated -  there is proven risk with Barclaycard Avios - BA already devalued Avios to Nectar conversions with little notice. They could further devalue or pull the conversion entirety with zero comeback to the Barclaycard Avios holder as the award is Avios points not Nectar points directly.

You're right, there is a risk, but it can be mitigated by turning on autoconvert. Points are paid out monthly on the second working day, and both times the conversion rate has been nerfed sufficient notice has been provided that points for rewards earned on existing spend to work its way through to Nectar, save for any 'loose change'.

In general all airline rewards will be devalued over time too at the whim of whoever partakes in the scheme. 

I prefer earning straight up Nectar to Avios because the standard redemption rate has been static since the scheme launched over 2 decades ago, but of course they could change that too; I would hope to be given sufficient notice to spend them all if the rate were to change negatively.

Cashback options are available if you prefer - but even then there's nothing to stop your issuer from changing the scheme in any way they like (including withdrawing it completely) so long as they give sufficient notice.

You can only play the cards in your hand.

Personally I prefer cashback to nectar or avios -  I don't really shop in Sainsbury's and don't use airlines that take avios.

You do you, but it's worth pointing out that it's a (very common!) falsehood that you need to shop regularly at Sainsbury's/Argos for Nectar points to be of value. This myth is perpetuated even by MSE's editorial, unfortunately.

All you need is to be able to spend very occasionally at Sainsbury's or Argos - i.e. a trip to a Sainsbury's filling station 2 or 3 times a year, or a purchase of a new phone every few years at Argos (only if they're close to the best price, of course).

I believe you can also purchase branded gift cards at Sainsbury's using Nectar points.

One other advantage of the Nectar Amex over Cashback ones is the very regular payouts with the Nectar Amex (several times a month) vs the very rigid annual Amex payout.

There's definitely pro's and con's to both.

I never buy petrol/diesel (no car) and in the last decade I think I've bought one thing in Argos.

I buy my phones from John Lewis as generally I've found customer service is better. 

So,  for my situation cashback is better for me, but for your situation points are better.

Clearly fuel and phones is not an exhaustive list do you ever spend at any of the many retailers Sainsburys sell gift cards for?

[Clearly the answer is yes, because one of those retailers is John Lewis....]

Gift cards also aren't something I buy, you don't get S.75 protection and if the retailer goes bust, or the card expires you've lost the money. 

If I want to give someone the means to purchase something, I'll give them cash they can spend anywhere.

Personally I prefer cashback over points. If you prefer points, that's great.

Of course, you do you but to the OP and the casual lurker reading, it's important to know that shopping at Sainsburys/Argos anything more than occasionally is not necessary to get full value from Nectar points.

Arguably every single cashback/rewards credit card deal going could be beaten by an average purchase credit card, with stoozing. Obviously there's a lot more discipline required there than there might be with a cash back credit card, which in turn requires more discipline than spending on a debit card...

There are no right or wrong choices, but there are fallacies which can distract people from getting the most value from their spend.

There is also a risk appetite and hassle factor that varies from person to person. 

It's obvious that your setup works for you and you're happy to go out of your way to redeem for the right scheme.
Much like @Emmia I wouldn't value something at Argos as being the same as something at JL.

There's a solution to that, which is to buy JL gift cards at Sainsburys using Nectar points

But yes, if you prefer cash because cash is cash, then it doesn't matter how you can contrive value from Nectar points because they are not cash.

Emmia

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

Obviously this should be heavily caveated -  there is proven risk with Barclaycard Avios - BA already devalued Avios to Nectar conversions with little notice. They could further devalue or pull the conversion entirety with zero comeback to the Barclaycard Avios holder as the award is Avios points not Nectar points directly.

You're right, there is a risk, but it can be mitigated by turning on autoconvert. Points are paid out monthly on the second working day, and both times the conversion rate has been nerfed sufficient notice has been provided that points for rewards earned on existing spend to work its way through to Nectar, save for any 'loose change'.

In general all airline rewards will be devalued over time too at the whim of whoever partakes in the scheme. 

I prefer earning straight up Nectar to Avios because the standard redemption rate has been static since the scheme launched over 2 decades ago, but of course they could change that too; I would hope to be given sufficient notice to spend them all if the rate were to change negatively.

Cashback options are available if you prefer - but even then there's nothing to stop your issuer from changing the scheme in any way they like (including withdrawing it completely) so long as they give sufficient notice.

You can only play the cards in your hand.

Personally I prefer cashback to nectar or avios -  I don't really shop in Sainsbury's and don't use airlines that take avios.

You do you, but it's worth pointing out that it's a (very common!) falsehood that you need to shop regularly at Sainsbury's/Argos for Nectar points to be of value. This myth is perpetuated even by MSE's editorial, unfortunately.

All you need is to be able to spend very occasionally at Sainsbury's or Argos - i.e. a trip to a Sainsbury's filling station 2 or 3 times a year, or a purchase of a new phone every few years at Argos (only if they're close to the best price, of course).

I believe you can also purchase branded gift cards at Sainsbury's using Nectar points.

One other advantage of the Nectar Amex over Cashback ones is the very regular payouts with the Nectar Amex (several times a month) vs the very rigid annual Amex payout.

There's definitely pro's and con's to both.

I never buy petrol/diesel (no car) and in the last decade I think I've bought one thing in Argos.

I buy my phones from John Lewis as generally I've found customer service is better. 

So,  for my situation cashback is better for me, but for your situation points are better.

Clearly fuel and phones is not an exhaustive list do you ever spend at any of the many retailers Sainsburys sell gift cards for?

[Clearly the answer is yes, because one of those retailers is John Lewis....]

Gift cards also aren't something I buy, you don't get S.75 protection and if the retailer goes bust, or the card expires you've lost the money. 

If I want to give someone the means to purchase something, I'll give them cash they can spend anywhere.

Personally I prefer cashback over points. If you prefer points, that's great.

Of course, you do you but to the OP and the casual lurker reading, it's important to know that shopping at Sainsburys/Argos anything more than occasionally is not necessary to get full value from Nectar points.

Arguably every single cashback/rewards credit card deal going could be beaten by an average purchase credit card, with stoozing. Obviously there's a lot more discipline required there than there might be with a cash back credit card, which in turn requires more discipline than spending on a debit card...

There are no right or wrong choices, but there are fallacies which can distract people from getting the most value from their spend.

There is also a risk appetite and hassle factor that varies from person to person. 

It's obvious that your setup works for you and you're happy to go out of your way to redeem for the right scheme.
Much like @Emmia I wouldn't value something at Argos as being the same as something at JL.

There's a solution to that, which is to buy JL gift cards at Sainsburys using Nectar points

But yes, if you prefer cash because cash is cash, then it doesn't matter how you can contrive value from Nectar points because they are not cash.

What exactly is your obsession with points? It's great that as a reward scheme it works for you, but I and many other people prefer cashback.

I don't personally want the hassle and possible downsides of having to buy gift cards to buy other things. I can get discounted gift cards through work in the employee benefits scheme, but I don't buy them either.

sausage_time

Each to their own.  There is clearly appetite for multiple types of reward scheme!  

WillPS

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

Obviously this should be heavily caveated -  there is proven risk with Barclaycard Avios - BA already devalued Avios to Nectar conversions with little notice. They could further devalue or pull the conversion entirety with zero comeback to the Barclaycard Avios holder as the award is Avios points not Nectar points directly.

You're right, there is a risk, but it can be mitigated by turning on autoconvert. Points are paid out monthly on the second working day, and both times the conversion rate has been nerfed sufficient notice has been provided that points for rewards earned on existing spend to work its way through to Nectar, save for any 'loose change'.

In general all airline rewards will be devalued over time too at the whim of whoever partakes in the scheme. 

I prefer earning straight up Nectar to Avios because the standard redemption rate has been static since the scheme launched over 2 decades ago, but of course they could change that too; I would hope to be given sufficient notice to spend them all if the rate were to change negatively.

Cashback options are available if you prefer - but even then there's nothing to stop your issuer from changing the scheme in any way they like (including withdrawing it completely) so long as they give sufficient notice.

You can only play the cards in your hand.

Personally I prefer cashback to nectar or avios -  I don't really shop in Sainsbury's and don't use airlines that take avios.

You do you, but it's worth pointing out that it's a (very common!) falsehood that you need to shop regularly at Sainsbury's/Argos for Nectar points to be of value. This myth is perpetuated even by MSE's editorial, unfortunately.

All you need is to be able to spend very occasionally at Sainsbury's or Argos - i.e. a trip to a Sainsbury's filling station 2 or 3 times a year, or a purchase of a new phone every few years at Argos (only if they're close to the best price, of course).

I believe you can also purchase branded gift cards at Sainsbury's using Nectar points.

One other advantage of the Nectar Amex over Cashback ones is the very regular payouts with the Nectar Amex (several times a month) vs the very rigid annual Amex payout.

There's definitely pro's and con's to both.

I never buy petrol/diesel (no car) and in the last decade I think I've bought one thing in Argos.

I buy my phones from John Lewis as generally I've found customer service is better. 

So,  for my situation cashback is better for me, but for your situation points are better.

Clearly fuel and phones is not an exhaustive list do you ever spend at any of the many retailers Sainsburys sell gift cards for?

[Clearly the answer is yes, because one of those retailers is John Lewis....]

Gift cards also aren't something I buy, you don't get S.75 protection and if the retailer goes bust, or the card expires you've lost the money. 

If I want to give someone the means to purchase something, I'll give them cash they can spend anywhere.

Personally I prefer cashback over points. If you prefer points, that's great.

Of course, you do you but to the OP and the casual lurker reading, it's important to know that shopping at Sainsburys/Argos anything more than occasionally is not necessary to get full value from Nectar points.

Arguably every single cashback/rewards credit card deal going could be beaten by an average purchase credit card, with stoozing. Obviously there's a lot more discipline required there than there might be with a cash back credit card, which in turn requires more discipline than spending on a debit card...

There are no right or wrong choices, but there are fallacies which can distract people from getting the most value from their spend.

There is also a risk appetite and hassle factor that varies from person to person. 

It's obvious that your setup works for you and you're happy to go out of your way to redeem for the right scheme.
Much like @Emmia I wouldn't value something at Argos as being the same as something at JL.

There's a solution to that, which is to buy JL gift cards at Sainsburys using Nectar points

But yes, if you prefer cash because cash is cash, then it doesn't matter how you can contrive value from Nectar points because they are not cash.

What exactly is your obsession with points? It's great that as a reward scheme it works for you, but I and many other people prefer cashback.

I don't personally want the hassle and possible downsides of having to buy gift cards to buy other things. I can get discounted gift cards through work in the employee benefits scheme, but I don't buy them either.

It's called money saving  

FWIW in the next couple of months I'll be shifting from Nectar to Vitality (presuming Amex accept my application), because I should be able to earn at least 1.25% cashback there vs 1% effective with Nectar. 

I totally understand the draw of cash over points, but if the aim of the game is to maximise rewards on normal spend using an Amex then a Nectar Amex is a higher paying option on annual spends up to £18250, with the caveat that the rewards need to spent as Nectar points (which includes fuel, branded gift cards, Argos etc; doesn't have to be groceries). 

Largs

Has there been a change on the buying gift cards? I only ask as there is a thread over on food shopping and groceries saying this was refused at Sainsburys Supermarket.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6584402/using-nectar-points-to-buy-gift-cards-in-sainsburys#latest

WillPS

It worked last time I tried, will double check next time I top up my Amazon account. I know they have recently stopped you from being able to buy gift cards using Sainsburys gift cards, possible this was caught in the crossfire.

Olenna

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

Obviously this should be heavily caveated -  there is proven risk with Barclaycard Avios - BA already devalued Avios to Nectar conversions with little notice. They could further devalue or pull the conversion entirety with zero comeback to the Barclaycard Avios holder as the award is Avios points not Nectar points directly.

You're right, there is a risk, but it can be mitigated by turning on autoconvert. Points are paid out monthly on the second working day, and both times the conversion rate has been nerfed sufficient notice has been provided that points for rewards earned on existing spend to work its way through to Nectar, save for any 'loose change'.

In general all airline rewards will be devalued over time too at the whim of whoever partakes in the scheme. 

I prefer earning straight up Nectar to Avios because the standard redemption rate has been static since the scheme launched over 2 decades ago, but of course they could change that too; I would hope to be given sufficient notice to spend them all if the rate were to change negatively.

Cashback options are available if you prefer - but even then there's nothing to stop your issuer from changing the scheme in any way they like (including withdrawing it completely) so long as they give sufficient notice.

You can only play the cards in your hand.

Personally I prefer cashback to nectar or avios -  I don't really shop in Sainsbury's and don't use airlines that take avios.

You do you, but it's worth pointing out that it's a (very common!) falsehood that you need to shop regularly at Sainsbury's/Argos for Nectar points to be of value. This myth is perpetuated even by MSE's editorial, unfortunately.

All you need is to be able to spend very occasionally at Sainsbury's or Argos - i.e. a trip to a Sainsbury's filling station 2 or 3 times a year, or a purchase of a new phone every few years at Argos (only if they're close to the best price, of course).

I believe you can also purchase branded gift cards at Sainsbury's using Nectar points.

One other advantage of the Nectar Amex over Cashback ones is the very regular payouts with the Nectar Amex (several times a month) vs the very rigid annual Amex payout.

There's definitely pro's and con's to both.

I never buy petrol/diesel (no car) and in the last decade I think I've bought one thing in Argos.

I buy my phones from John Lewis as generally I've found customer service is better. 

So,  for my situation cashback is better for me, but for your situation points are better.

Clearly fuel and phones is not an exhaustive list do you ever spend at any of the many retailers Sainsburys sell gift cards for?

[Clearly the answer is yes, because one of those retailers is John Lewis....]

Gift cards also aren't something I buy, you don't get S.75 protection and if the retailer goes bust, or the card expires you've lost the money. 

If I want to give someone the means to purchase something, I'll give them cash they can spend anywhere.

Personally I prefer cashback over points. If you prefer points, that's great.

Of course, you do you but to the OP and the casual lurker reading, it's important to know that shopping at Sainsburys/Argos anything more than occasionally is not necessary to get full value from Nectar points.

Arguably every single cashback/rewards credit card deal going could be beaten by an average purchase credit card, with stoozing. Obviously there's a lot more discipline required there than there might be with a cash back credit card, which in turn requires more discipline than spending on a debit card...

There are no right or wrong choices, but there are fallacies which can distract people from getting the most value from their spend.

There is also a risk appetite and hassle factor that varies from person to person. 

It's obvious that your setup works for you and you're happy to go out of your way to redeem for the right scheme.
Much like @Emmia I wouldn't value something at Argos as being the same as something at JL.

There's a solution to that, which is to buy JL gift cards at Sainsburys using Nectar points

But yes, if you prefer cash because cash is cash, then it doesn't matter how you can contrive value from Nectar points because they are not cash.

It all goes back to risk appetite and hassle as I've noted. Not only have to go out of my way (time/fuel) to Sainsburys but buying gift cards at Sainsburys (using Nectar points) could be easily pulled at any time.

WillPS

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Emmia said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

Obviously this should be heavily caveated -  there is proven risk with Barclaycard Avios - BA already devalued Avios to Nectar conversions with little notice. They could further devalue or pull the conversion entirety with zero comeback to the Barclaycard Avios holder as the award is Avios points not Nectar points directly.

You're right, there is a risk, but it can be mitigated by turning on autoconvert. Points are paid out monthly on the second working day, and both times the conversion rate has been nerfed sufficient notice has been provided that points for rewards earned on existing spend to work its way through to Nectar, save for any 'loose change'.

In general all airline rewards will be devalued over time too at the whim of whoever partakes in the scheme. 

I prefer earning straight up Nectar to Avios because the standard redemption rate has been static since the scheme launched over 2 decades ago, but of course they could change that too; I would hope to be given sufficient notice to spend them all if the rate were to change negatively.

Cashback options are available if you prefer - but even then there's nothing to stop your issuer from changing the scheme in any way they like (including withdrawing it completely) so long as they give sufficient notice.

You can only play the cards in your hand.

Personally I prefer cashback to nectar or avios -  I don't really shop in Sainsbury's and don't use airlines that take avios.

You do you, but it's worth pointing out that it's a (very common!) falsehood that you need to shop regularly at Sainsbury's/Argos for Nectar points to be of value. This myth is perpetuated even by MSE's editorial, unfortunately.

All you need is to be able to spend very occasionally at Sainsbury's or Argos - i.e. a trip to a Sainsbury's filling station 2 or 3 times a year, or a purchase of a new phone every few years at Argos (only if they're close to the best price, of course).

I believe you can also purchase branded gift cards at Sainsbury's using Nectar points.

One other advantage of the Nectar Amex over Cashback ones is the very regular payouts with the Nectar Amex (several times a month) vs the very rigid annual Amex payout.

There's definitely pro's and con's to both.

I never buy petrol/diesel (no car) and in the last decade I think I've bought one thing in Argos.

I buy my phones from John Lewis as generally I've found customer service is better. 

So,  for my situation cashback is better for me, but for your situation points are better.

Clearly fuel and phones is not an exhaustive list do you ever spend at any of the many retailers Sainsburys sell gift cards for?

[Clearly the answer is yes, because one of those retailers is John Lewis....]

Gift cards also aren't something I buy, you don't get S.75 protection and if the retailer goes bust, or the card expires you've lost the money. 

If I want to give someone the means to purchase something, I'll give them cash they can spend anywhere.

Personally I prefer cashback over points. If you prefer points, that's great.

Of course, you do you but to the OP and the casual lurker reading, it's important to know that shopping at Sainsburys/Argos anything more than occasionally is not necessary to get full value from Nectar points.

Arguably every single cashback/rewards credit card deal going could be beaten by an average purchase credit card, with stoozing. Obviously there's a lot more discipline required there than there might be with a cash back credit card, which in turn requires more discipline than spending on a debit card...

There are no right or wrong choices, but there are fallacies which can distract people from getting the most value from their spend.

There is also a risk appetite and hassle factor that varies from person to person. 

It's obvious that your setup works for you and you're happy to go out of your way to redeem for the right scheme.
Much like @Emmia I wouldn't value something at Argos as being the same as something at JL.

There's a solution to that, which is to buy JL gift cards at Sainsburys using Nectar points

But yes, if you prefer cash because cash is cash, then it doesn't matter how you can contrive value from Nectar points because they are not cash.

It all goes back to risk appetite and hassle as I've noted. Not only have to go out of my way (time/fuel) to Sainsburys but buying gift cards at Sainsburys (using Nectar points) could be easily pulled at any time.

I find it quite hard to believe anyone who regularly drives in to towns or cities doesn't once or twice a year pass a Sainsbury's PFS with a kiosk which they could deplete their Nectar balance at. That being the case I don't think there's much of a question of needing to go out of one's way.

One of the strengths of the Nectar scheme is how low-friction burning points is - there's no periodic vouchers (unlike Tesco),  the value is completely static and any redemption which goes beyond that is so rare it shouldn't be a concern.

As noted upthread there is no risk-free option - even cash continually depreciates in value and Amex won't let you have it any more regularly than once a year, nor will they add any interest to it. In a high-inflation environment that means 10% of the value of your reward is potentially gone by the time you get it. By contrast Nectar points can be spent as soon as they're earned (and you have £2.50 worth of them). 

But yes, to each their own. If people want to convince themselves that it'll be a faff for them that's up to them, just so long as we're not peddling fallacies that insinuate one has to structure their life around the Sainsbury's ecosystem to enjoy any benefit from Nectar points.

I'm not telling anyone to use cards others than the ones they've chosen to use, I'm merely challenging the suggestion that the objectively higher-earning offers would somehow end up delivering less. There are no right or wrong answers, but there are certainly fallacies.

Leard91

WillPS said:

Putting airline redemptions aside, and assuming you value a Nectar point at exactly half a penny (i.e. the amount they can always be redeemed for at Sainsburys/Argos) the best value Amex rewards are as follows:


As you can see for most average spend the Nectar Amex is the winner.

The only exception to this I would point out is if you hold Vitality membership then you should look at the Vitality Amex, which gives potentially more than any of the cards listed above if you can get the activity in reliably. I'm in the process of proving to myself I can do that now before I apply for one.

For non-Amex, IMHO there are only two cards that make sense as a backup to an Amex - Santander Edge CC (1%, capped at £15 pm, £3 pm fee) and Barclaycard Avios (0.5% effectively when redeemed as Nectar, no annual fee). If you spend over £600 on spend which can't go through Amex, pick the Santander Edge CC. If not, go for the Barclaycard.

Honourable mention for the Chase account with its 1% cashback on debit card spend too.

This is some fantastic analysis, thanks.