Claim form for PCN - help with defence

flowercuppatea

Update - I won. Thank you for all of the help and advice from everyone who contributed on this forum. It is really appreciated.

Gr1pr

Well done,   Another one bites the dust   !

Give us a feedback report on what happened  ?  .   what won it ?   Etc

Coupon-mad

flowercuppatea said:

Update - I won. Thank you for all of the help and advice from everyone who contributed on this forum. It is really appreciated.

Congrats!

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

Tell us more: in person? Which court!?

What did their rep say?

What did the judge say?

What did you say?

Which point won it?

Did you ask for and get costs?

flowercuppatea

Sorry this is so long, but I hope this helps others.

Prior to going into the courtroom, the claimant's rep asked to speak with me in a side room. I politely declined based on advice from this forum. I was glad of the advice because I know without it I would have done as he asked, because he made it seem like normal practice.

I took all of my papers and a crib sheet of main points. Taking time to set all my stuff out and having everything clear in front of me helped with nerves.

Judge was very clear and thorough, and went carefully and fairly through all key points on both sides at the start.  She said it came down to one key point - had I entered my reg into the machine properly? The claimant rep agreed. This was a positive start because I knew what I was defending.

I'm not saying this because we won, but the judge was excellent in her approach. She made sure we understood at all points. Throughout it was not obvious which way she was deciding - she was actively listening. She went through everything thoroughly and spent a lot of time allowing the rep to put his case. To those familiar with court this might sound obvious, but I mention it because I didn't know what to expect.

There was very little really for their rep to argue/question to be honest. They tried a few angles but they were fruitless. They mentioned my medical condition, implied as a reason I may not have entered the reg properly.  Everyone agreed there was no medical expert in court (so basically they were on thin ice with their suggestions). Judge let me respond to that also so that was good (again I just used my relevant exhibit to help me be succinct).

My best advice as someone who was brand new to this process, is do your homework as best you can. This is what helped me. An example: as part of their exhibits the claimant had provided the log of all 160 cars which entered the car park on that day, showing mine as just 2 letters to 'prove' I hadn't entered my reg correctly. But I looked at this prior to writing my witness statement and noticed some odd looking number plates, and mentioned this in my witness statement. The day before court I came back to this evidence and entered all 160 reg plates, one at a time, into the car tax checker on the official government website, to see if any were incorrect number plates. Quite a few showed up as incorrect or invalid. Judge asked me to quote them line by line. I was so glad I'd highlighted them and recorded the reason that came up. Whilst the judge said she did not know why these anomalies were there, it did raise potential issues. Therefore, this put doubt upon the efficacy of the car park machine. Their rep tried to suggest this was new evidence and therefore we should adjourn. Judge said no, and that because this was actually one of their exhibits and that because I had raised issue with this evidence in my own witness statement (thanks to Coupon-mad for the advice to hang on until the last minute to hand in my witness statement, it enabled me to wait and read theirs first and make any amendments), Judge said they had had time to check this themselves, therefore it would be unfair for all to adjourn. Their rep said they must have been too busy to check.......

When I was asked to speak on this matter, I said I was in no doubt that I had entered my reg properly. In my exhibits I'd included previous tickets to demonstrate I knew how to do this. I referred to them. My friend's witness statement asserted this also, and explained she had been with me at the point of purchase. I was clear and also just stuck to my witness statement so it was straightforward. I mentioned too how no machine should accept only 2 characters when no such UK number plate exists. All of this was in my witness statement so I wasn't flustered even though daunted - I could just refer to what I had submitted.

I also raised the fact that they knew it was my car (even with allegedly only two letters on their records) because they alluded to the ticket I bought/what time/how much. Basically this last point demonstrated that there was no need to go to court - the car park knew all along I had paid, so keying error or no keying error they were not affected. No other cars in the log were even similar to mine so they hadn't had any difficulty working this out. 

So, evidence that I knew what to do to purchase a ticket, casting doubt upon the log/machine and the fact that they knew it was my car all added together. Ironically they handed me the victory really in their witness statement.

Judge said that on the balance of probabilities, she believed me and my witness and therefore had to rule in my favour.

Yes I got modest costs, our train tickets to the princely sum of £12 and half a day lost work at £45, so £57 total. (And of course didn't have to pay the £280 they were asking for). This was the only part where I hadn't really thought about exactly what I should be asking for! Ironically because the whole process made me feel I would lose. So advice here - have a script ready for if you win and the judge asks you. She did say that if we were asking for more substantive costs she may have required more evidence (e.g. for stress/anxiety etc.).

I look back now more clearly because the emotion and fear is gone, and think it was likely I'd win. It was really clear they were being unfair and couldn't prove their accusation (because it wasn't true!). But trusting a system when it's unfamiliar is hard. So if you are in the middle of this process and doubting or worried I'd say - good luck, read this forum regularly, do your homework, be prepared and hopefully it will work for you. But I'm not going to say I think it was worth it - I put in far too many hours and I have had moments where I thought 'If only you'd paid the £60'. Sorry if that's a negative point but it's true. I'm stubborn with regard to bullies so probably would do it all again..... but I can completely see why people just pay up. My reason for adding this is to make the point (which I know everyone on here agrees with and is fighting for) that the Government needs to finally step up and stop this scamming. No one should have to go through this ridiculous process.

Le_Kirk

Excellent outcome and well-written court report.  Glad to have been of some help.

Coupon-mad

This is such a powerful and encouraging summary of a hearing, that I've just linked your post in the NEWBIES thread!

Well done! You beat DCB legal/ Excel Parking!

Now we ask that you stick around just a little longer to respond to the Public Consultation.

What parking operators do is is a national disgrace and a drain on Society, in terms of money and anxiety. If you want to be part of the push to change things in future, it's very important that people like you tell the Government that:

a) you have no faith in POPLA or the IAS and that there must be the SINGLE APPEALS SERVICE that the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 *almost* promised. As long as it is independent and impartial (and only ONE appeals service, not two involved in a race to the bottom) that will give a real option to resolve disputed cases out of court.

b).  THAT THE ENRICHMENT OF 'DEBT RECOVERY FEES' MUST BE COMPLETELY BANNED. DISPUTED CASES ARE NOT SOLVED BY DEMANDING MORE MONEY AND OFFERING A 'PAYMENT PLAN' THAT ONLY DUPED VICTIMS PAY. DRAS LIKE DCB LEGAL MAKE NO MONEY IF THEY HANDLE DISPUTES IN THE SPIRIT OF THE APPEALS CHARTER, WHICH IS WHY THEY ALWAYS PLOUGH ON TO COURT CLAIMS AND CCJs, RATHER THAN OFFERING REAL RESOLUTION AT PRE-ACTION STAGE.

c). Tell them about your experience and the complete and utter waste of court resources caused on a grand scale by DCB Legal and aggressive clients like Excel Parking who knew which car your payment related to, used faulty keypad equipment (not your fault) and should have cancelled the PCN months ago.

d). There's a question about a new mitigation: where a consumer can evidence that a breach 'wasn't their fault'. Please answer that one to ask why the MHCLG thinks the burden of evidence should be on the consumer, in cases with faulty keypads and systems? How on earth can the motorist provide 'evidence' at appeal stage if the system/machine itself caused a keying error, for example? This is an unfair burden. The motorist's account should be believed unless the operator can show evidence that everything was working and they couldn't possibly have matched up the payment with a simple 'fuzzy whitelist' search or - better - a mandatory check by a human!

Responses are invited to the Consultation now:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6617396/parking-code-of-practice-consultation-8-weeks-from-11th-july-2025/p1

Do it this month pleeease!

We will discuss it further next week on that thread if you want ideas. Stick around. You are an inspiration and - if you gave time every so often - you may like to come here and post on threads to help others facing hearings.

flowercuppatea

Thanks again @Le_Kirk and @Coupon-mad
I will respond to the consultation, no problem. I've also contacted my local MP to update him on the outcome, he is on our side with this and was really chuffed with the outcome. He's suggested I go and meet with him to talk through the experience so that he is further informed in his efforts to push changes with this forward. I'm going to do this. I hope it helps. 

Coupon-mad

flowercuppatea said:

Thanks again @Le_Kirk and @Coupon-mad
I will respond to the consultation, no problem. I've also contacted my local MP to update him on the outcome, he is on our side with this and was really chuffed with the outcome. He's suggested I go and meet with him to talk through the experience so that he is further informed in his efforts to push changes with this forward. I'm going to do this. I hope it helps. 

This is all brilliant. 

Le_Kirk

Coupon-mad said:

This is such a powerful and encouraging summary of a hearing, that I've just linked your post in the NEWBIES thread!

I've also used it as an example to another poster asking for advice about hearings procedure.

joolsbfd

flowercuppatea said:

I look back now more clearly because the emotion and fear is gone, and think it was likely I'd win. It was really clear they were being unfair and couldn't prove their accusation (because it wasn't true!). But trusting a system when it's unfamiliar is hard. So if you are in the middle of this process and doubting or worried I'd say - good luck, read this forum regularly, do your homework, be prepared and hopefully it will work for you. But I'm not going to say I think it was worth it - I put in far too many hours and I have had moments where I thought 'If only you'd paid the £60'. Sorry if that's a negative point but it's true. I'm stubborn with regard to bullies so probably would do it all again..... but I can completely see why people just pay up. My reason for adding this is to make the point (which I know everyone on here agrees with and is fighting for) that the Government needs to finally step up and stop this scamming. No one should have to go through this ridiculous process.

im also in a si ilar position. i will go to court because of the principle and i have spent hours trying to read things when i'm menopausal, stressed at work and find it hard to follow the various threads, or know what to do with a template that says 'i can't remember' when i CAN remember, and i know what happened. But i will find my way through, and keep on because taking me to court when i actually paid is blxxxdy ridiculous. Thanks for sharing and supporting, and your honesty