Brown Paper Delivered Instead of iPhone 16 Pro Max

samcathe

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

From what I gather a chargeback won't work as Amazon will have proof of a delivery.

Surely that would only negate a 'goods not received' claim, rather than a 'goods not as described' one (which can obviously only be raised after delivery!)?

I have raised a dispute with my bank. So, I am looking forward to their response.

powerful_Rogue

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

From what I gather a chargeback won't work as Amazon will have proof of a delivery.

Surely that would only negate a 'goods not received' claim, rather than a 'goods not as described' one (which can obviously only be raised after delivery!)?

Apparently not according to the chargeback rules. Even if it was delivered to an incorrect address, as long as the retailer can say it was 'delivered', they are covered.

eskbanker

powerful_Rogue said:

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

From what I gather a chargeback won't work as Amazon will have proof of a delivery.

Surely that would only negate a 'goods not received' claim, rather than a 'goods not as described' one (which can obviously only be raised after delivery!)?

Apparently not according to the chargeback rules. Even if it was delivered to an incorrect address, as long as the retailer can say it was 'delivered', they are covered.

I'm certainly aware of a regular poster on here advising that any sort of delivery notification precludes a 'not delivered' claim, but don't see how delivery prevents a 'not as described' one - do you have sight of an authoritative copy of the relevant rules, as they always seem very opaque?

visidigi

This is high value, did you not have to give a pin for delivery? Was the security tape intact? When you say brown paper, is it a ream of paper or just the screwed up paper inside they usually include to protect contents?

There's real problems with these high value deliveries of late, there are SO many places that they can be tampered with...

Aylesbury_Duck

visidigi said:

This is high value, did you not have to give a pin for delivery? Was the security tape intact? When you say brown paper, is it a ream of paper or just the screwed up paper inside they usually include to protect contents?

There's real problems with these high value deliveries of late, there are SO many places that they can be tampered with...

I'm in the market for a new phone, and even though I won't be spending more than a couple of hundred quid, I will be buying one from a physical store.  Same with things like headphones, smartwatches and any portable tech.  I've heard too many stories like this.  I appreciate that they represent a tiny fraction of all similar purchases, but that's not much consolation when it's you that loses out. 

samcathe

visidigi said:

This is high value, did you not have to give a pin for delivery? Was the security tape intact? When you say brown paper, is it a ream of paper or just the screwed up paper inside they usually include to protect contents?

There's real problems with these high value deliveries of late, there are SO many places that they can be tampered with...

In all honesty, I was a bit suspicious when he delivered the item. I regret not opening the package right in front of him. I opened the item immediately and found a brown paper. I had to run out immediately. Fortunately, the delivery driver was still around. Everything happened within just 5 minutes. 

powerful_Rogue

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

From what I gather a chargeback won't work as Amazon will have proof of a delivery.

Surely that would only negate a 'goods not received' claim, rather than a 'goods not as described' one (which can obviously only be raised after delivery!)?

Apparently not according to the chargeback rules. Even if it was delivered to an incorrect address, as long as the retailer can say it was 'delivered', they are covered.

I'm certainly aware of a regular poster on here advising that any sort of delivery notification precludes a 'not delivered' claim, but don't see how delivery prevents a 'not as described' one - do you have sight of an authoritative copy of the relevant rules, as they always seem very opaque?

Nope, I'm just going by the expert in this field - @born_again

eskbanker

powerful_Rogue said:

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

From what I gather a chargeback won't work as Amazon will have proof of a delivery.

Surely that would only negate a 'goods not received' claim, rather than a 'goods not as described' one (which can obviously only be raised after delivery!)?

Apparently not according to the chargeback rules. Even if it was delivered to an incorrect address, as long as the retailer can say it was 'delivered', they are covered.

I'm certainly aware of a regular poster on here advising that any sort of delivery notification precludes a 'not delivered' claim, but don't see how delivery prevents a 'not as described' one - do you have sight of an authoritative copy of the relevant rules, as they always seem very opaque?

Nope, I'm just going by the expert in this field - @born_again

There are certainly quite a few credible regulars who clearly have significant experience and knowledge in specialist subject areas, but I'd always be wary of considering any to be 'experts' as such, and all the more so when offering information that can't be independently verified.... (no offence to anyone btw!)

born_again

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

eskbanker said:

powerful_Rogue said:

From what I gather a chargeback won't work as Amazon will have proof of a delivery.

Surely that would only negate a 'goods not received' claim, rather than a 'goods not as described' one (which can obviously only be raised after delivery!)?

Apparently not according to the chargeback rules. Even if it was delivered to an incorrect address, as long as the retailer can say it was 'delivered', they are covered.

I'm certainly aware of a regular poster on here advising that any sort of delivery notification precludes a 'not delivered' claim, but don't see how delivery prevents a 'not as described' one - do you have sight of an authoritative copy of the relevant rules, as they always seem very opaque?

Nope, I'm just going by the expert in this field - @born_again

There are certainly quite a few credible regulars who clearly have significant experience and knowledge in specialist subject areas, but I'd always be wary of considering any to be 'experts' as such, and all the more so when offering information that can't be independently verified.... (no offence to anyone btw!)

None taken, as I'm sure others will not be either. 👍

Interesting one on "Not as described" Might work, but Amazon could contest on the basis of what was sent out. As they should have proof at their end. Or simply not contest & go legal to recover cost.

In reality chargebacks are not designed for these cases.
So it becomes a case of "What reason can I use" at our end. I have known people do non receipt when customer has clearly stated they have cancelled. Slam dunk rejection if company is on the ball. 

These cases are a nightmare for the receiver. As it really is down to just how good the retailer is at resolving.

To throw this back at the consumer rights "experts" how would this fit in with item only being delivered when handed to purchaser?

With only brown paper in the package, it would weight nothing like a i-phone.
Do Amazon list IMEI number on the invoice? If they do at least it could be blocked.

eskbanker

born_again said:

Interesting one on "Not as described" Might work, but Amazon could contest on the basis of what was sent out. As they should have proof at their end. Or simply not contest & go legal to recover cost.

Absolutely - I wasn't asserting that a 'not as described' chargeback claim was a slam-dunk, guaranteed to succeed, but simply challenging the assertion that it would automatically fail if the retailer has proof of delivery.  It would obviously still need to go through the usual process of claim and then assessment of any response from the merchant....