Snug Octopus (Economy 7) Problems

Spoonie_Turtle

The T&Cs seem to support the interpretation of it only being when the NSHs need charging:

2.14.1 Snug Octopus is a Variable Rate Tariff, with your daily standing charge, a quoted day rate per kWh and a quoted night rate (for six hours, from 00:30 to 06:30 - the “off-peak hours”).

…
2.14.4 If we schedule your storage heaters to charge outside of the off-peak hours, we will apply the night rate for your storage heater charging during that scheduled period and other household usage during that period will be charged in the relevant half hour billing periods at the night rate.

https://octopus.energy/policies/smart-tariffs-terms-and-condition/#snugoctopus

Scot_39

Yes that if - the 2.14.4 - was definitely being used in the above costing charts - when the posters were getting NSH charged earlier than the 00:30 start of off-peak hours for their c9p rate.

I picked up on that and the definitive answer to use of 1/2 hrly billing - but thanks for linking it to the FAQ section as well re afternoon.

I didn't personally think the winter condition was contentious - I don't use my NSH in summer.  And saw no reason to expect them to provide it outside of winter.

Just as in theory tariffs like THTC (5 to 12 hours) or SP weathercall equivalents - follow the temperatures.

Scot_39

Silly question - has anyone had a price change notice for Snug

It's still giving me the 9p off peak rate despite multirate cap rate up around 2p from Apr 1 - for e7 style SVTs.

Should we expect one - and if so every 3 months at cap changes ?

If so when do Octopus either announce it or update their online quote page ?

QrizB

Scot_39 said:

If so when do Octopus either announce it or update their online quote page ?

Octopus emailed me in the 18th of December with details of the new IOG tariffs applicable from the 1st of January. If that's typical, it'll be almost another fortnight before we hear what applies from April.

Scot_39 said:

Should we expect one - and if so every 4 months at cap changes ?

The cap changes quarterly, every three months.

Scot_39

Oops sorry will correct the 4 to 3

worlestone

Scot_39 said:

Silly question - has anyone had a price change notice for Snug

It's still giving me the 9p off peak rate despite multirate cap rate up around 2p from Apr 1 - for e7 style SVTs.

Should we expect one - and if so every 3 months at cap changes ?

If so when do Octopus either announce it or update their online quote page ?

Yes, I had an email a week or so ago with the new rates, details below, it's not so bad with the drop in standing charge...




However I have a new beef with Octopus, it seems that the off-peak charge is happening earlier in the evening, which for me causes a corresponding extra 9 minutes charging of NSH at the peak rate, see the attached picture, so I now have two periods (three really) where the NSH energy is going full whack into the peak period, so potentially an additional £1 a day. Octopus still say they can do nothing about it...

worlestone

The only positive to the above for me is that we've just had the storage heaters replaced with shiny new Dimplex Quantum's through the Home Upgrade Grant. I understand that these can be programmed to specify the charge time, so maybe I'll be able to set this up, but not brave enough yet as they're new! Instead I'm still manually switching the power to the heaters off at 4:00pm and switching it back on at 4:10pm... good job I'm a pensioner and at home mostly! 

Swipe

I don't understand why they can't bill according to the rate 1 and 2 meter readings instead of the 30 min slots, just like on E7. Would this not completely solve this overlap problem?

worlestone

Who knows!

Scot_39

Swipe said:

I don't understand why they can't bill according to the rate 1 and 2 meter readings instead of the 30 min slots, just like on E7. Would this not completely solve this overlap problem?

It would if everything was rigidly set to do so.

But with flexibilities built in not sure viable.

I believe for instance they don't guarantee to apply the flexible heater boost outside the nominal core hours 0030 to 0630 iirc.  Inc the 1100 tk 1130 slot thst now gives OP another 10m rate swap.  But have been doing so from several users posts.

This isn't meant to be like a rigid old e7 split 6+1 or just 6 overnight in summer.

Octopus appear to take over dynamic switching - and the 10 min anomaly on billing rates at the periphery -  a consequence of their method.

They could restrict it but then others might complain.

You might even argue that the billing system Kraken (? Sp??) could have the OPs c10 min slot offset built in.  But given the coming wider market half hourly settlement don't see that happening ever.

And reading tge t&Cs their is a clear reference to block mode as a fall back - I don't know if relying on those parameters to do the alcs control.  It reads almost like roll back to preset e7 tables etc.

Re Dimplex windowing.

The Dimplex timer  is effectively no different to what you are doing manually.  If they dont complain about one why worry aboug the other.  Although arguably both are decoupling the demand from Octopus control via meter.
Is that any different to say that all 3 of my NSH are permanently off right now for weeks-  although like last year may need next week for few days / weeks - and wouldnt expect any come back from doing so.  Others - needing more heat - will still be running theirs.

But beware if you set a much reduced max charge period they from the reddit linked thread posts don't apply heating alcs switching continuously within it.  Iirc those were on 2.5 to 3hours nightly but pulsed 5 or 6 times over the window. Those reddit post graphs saw what both users jnterpreted as a repeated kind of 1/2 hr on 1/2 hr off.

Those core hours might change when millions of EV start charging overnight everynight in a decade or so.  And last summer when looked at Agile rates - some early afternoon slots were cheaper than some of the core night slots.  But hardly when most will be using nsh but my hw tank would respond.


I suspect they think they are being helpful giving people more 9p rate slots than the core.

Suspect many users not twigged to the 10min rate issue despite FAQ.Once a day on the long charge 10min one thing, two bad, three worse.

But the half hour if a a regular event - perhaps worth reaching out to Octupus.  But as covered by FAQ not sure they can or will change.


I'd probably prefer my heaters to charge a little at 11pm for  instance.  Even if meant paid little more for a fraction of the charge.

The 9p rate will soon be under half my e10 off peak at EOn anyway.  Will need to talk to either EDF if accept new E10s or Octopus this summer for next winter once decide if moving more likely not.