Snug Octopus (Economy 7) Problems

Gerry1

Phones4Chris said:

Gerry1 said:

Ildhund said:

As I understand it, the variation in switching times is always a delay of up to 30 minutes (so not in each direction). The amount of the delay is randomized, unique and fixed for each meter:

@Ildhund That may be the case for smart meters but not so for conventional meters with RTS unit.  Mine states it's 2230-0030 and 0230-0730 GMT ± 15 minutes.

With smart meters, I wonder if it's to simplify it so that the offset is always a positive value?  It could be a bit like the fudge on supply voltage tolerances where they were changed to match the EU 230V rules but the UK effectively stayed exactly the same with 240V.

A nominal 2230 start time could be redefined to be 2215 with an offset delay between 0 and 30 minutes with an average of 15.

I don't think I've ever come across a case where the offset in non-smart meter situations was SET early (unless a timeswitch was wrong!). I'm guessing that what it says on yours may be to cover situations where it's lost its RTS signal.
As far as Smart meters go, it is always "plus" (which can be zero).

Sticky SEEBOARD label on my RTS gives the times and says 'ACCURACY ± 15 MINUTES'.  It also has '57' written in biro.

It invariably kicks in at 2231 GMT.

Chrysalis

Thanks, guess need to wait at least 15 minutes then.  Seems a bit bizarre, imagine being told free weekend calls, but the weekend doesnt start until a undetermined time.

Spoonie_Turtle

Chrysalis said:

Thanks, guess need to wait at least 15 minutes then.  Seems a bit bizarre, imagine being told free weekend calls, but the weekend doesnt start until a undetermined time.

That's a reference that'll be lost past a certain generation!

sebtomato

worlestone said:

Has anyone else here switched to Octopus Snug and having timing problems?



For the last week the off peak 'boost' has been scheduled between 15:00 and 16:00, so ours switches at 15:10 and off again 16:10. Fortunately I'm at home a lot and can manually switch the off peak consumer unit off, but less than ideal.

Surely Octopus could compensate this by sending the switch signal ay 14:50 and 15:50.

If they were "sending the switch signal" at 14:50, then your ALCS would trigger some load at 14:50, while you are still charged at peak rate from 14:50 to 15:00, so wouldn't compensate. ALCS and rate applied are not linked, so there is no solution for this. ALCS "off peak signal" is staggered/delayed to avoid spike on the grid, while rates are applied per exact 30 minute periods. Those will never exactly match.

In my case, ALCS is switched on from 23:08 to 06:08 pretty much every day (so 7 hours continuously), while the Snug setting is only 6 hours (maximum). However, looking at the graph on the website, I am charged off peak hours from 23:00 to 07:00, so 8 hours per night. ALCS is therefore 100% during the off peak period.

In the afternoon, ALCS is switched on from 15:08 to 16:08, so yes, there are 8 minutes where the offpeak circuit is on, but I will be charged peak rate (from 16:00 to 16:08). All my power consumption during that hour is charged at off peak rate.

Here is my ALCS graph for the last 24 hours:



On the basis that I am getting 9 hours per day off peak , at an off peak rate 25% cheaper than economy 7, a very good tariff as far as I am concerned, particularly when the bulk of my consumption is during off peak periods.

Swipe

Thanks for the breakdown sebtomato. I'm on an E.On Next 10.91p overnight rate fix until autumn but Snug sounds like it may be a good choice when my fix ends.

worlestone

QrizB said:

Until @worlestone checks their bill and answers this question:

QrizB said:

worlestone said:

But it's not, for us it's 50 minutes off peak which then rolls into 10 minutes at peak, so any saving is gone. An hour is 60 minutes after all, not 50

Do Octopus charge for Snug based on the 30-minute metering values (like they do Agile or Go) or do they use two registers in the meter (like they would for E7)?

If the latter, it makes no difference. You'll get the full 60 minutes at the cheaper rate.

... we won't know if this is a real problem or simply an artefact of how Octopus's app displays the 30-minute data.

Apologies... Yes, the bill comes in with 30 minute values for charging each day.

I've had a subsequent email from Octopus saying there's a problem with my smart meter and it needs a firmware update, maybe that will help fix it

jodie264

I'm fine with my snug tariff having been e7 for 43 years!  It's cheaper per kW.  I've just always trusted the storage heaters and hot water ONLY come on when the E7 kicks in so assume it's the same with Snug.  My problem is the afternoon boost. Despite being told at the start I had the right meter, their very helpful team eventually came back and said my Kaifa meter (I think that was the name) wasn't compatible for the boost?!  Did I want to be put forward for another meter to which I said yes but still waiting 6 weeks on?  

Scot_39

Have you tried pushing for a date.

Octopus I wax surprised to learn - guess because they inherited them - were in top 3 of those suppliers with iirc over 100,000  rts meters to replace by June at rmtge ebd of last year according to Elexon charts.

So may be busy.

Although pretty soon you might not need or even be given the 1 hr afternoon slot anyway- as meant to be winter only.

sebtomato

Scot_39 said:

Have you tried pushing for a date.

Octopus I wax surprised to learn - guess because they inherited them - were in top 3 of those suppliers with iirc over 100,000  rts meters to replace by June at rmtge ebd of last year according to Elexon charts.

So may be busy.

Although pretty soon you might not need or even be given the 1 hr afternoon slot anyway- as meant to be winter only.

Where have you seen the afternoon boost/off peak hour is "winter only"??

Scot_39

sebtomato said:

Scot_39 said:

Have you tried pushing for a date.

Octopus I wax surprised to learn - guess because they inherited them - were in top 3 of those suppliers with iirc over 100,000  rts meters to replace by June at rmtge ebd of last year according to Elexon charts.

So may be busy.

Although pretty soon you might not need or even be given the 1 hr afternoon slot anyway- as meant to be winter only.

Where have you seen the afternoon boost/off peak hour is "winter only"??

It's been there - at least from my interpretation of the FAQ - from the pre launch information - as per the thread I started reporting the prelaunch here on MSE. Wheras some of the other info has changed from memory. No one has queried my title / interpretation since - but am happy to go back and apologise / correct it if wrong.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6569093/snug-octopus-new-tariff-for-older-meter-alcs-nsh-inc-1-hr-afternoon-winter-boost

And the condition then - is still in the FAQ section today

https://octopus.energy/smart/snug-octopus/

Under the section -

What will my smart charging schedule look like ?

"As part of your smart schedule, we aim to charge your storage heaters between 00:30 and 06:30 when electricity is cheapest and greenest. Often this happens in short bursts overnight.

When things get chilly in winter, we'll also smart charge your storage heaters for an hour in the afternoon to keep your home warm and cosy throughout the evening – this will be charged at the off-peak rate. "

But haven't seen an actual definition of "winter" or "chilly" - which could arguably need to be set regionally.  

I don't know how else to interpret that "When...., we'll also... "  - other than it's only guaranteed to be winter only.