Car seized by police- odd one

QrizB

1jim said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Two years from pass date is the absolute maximum she can wait before registering the pass with DVLA and upgrading her licence to full.

There is absolutely zero upside to waiting any longer than absolutely necessary, and a huge amount of potential downside. She has already taken a year longer than basic common sense suggests wise...

So this situation couldn't have arisen in the days after sending the paperwork off then? What would she then have done?

Shown them the photo of the pass certificate she has on her phone, and explained it was in the post to DVLA?

Following your logic, she'll never send her certificate off "just in case she needs to show it to someone".

Mildly_Miffed

1jim said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Two years from pass date is the absolute maximum she can wait before registering the pass with DVLA and upgrading her licence to full.

There is absolutely zero upside to waiting any longer than absolutely necessary, and a huge amount of potential downside. She has already taken a year longer than basic common sense suggests wise...

So this situation couldn't have arisen in the days after sending the paperwork off then? What would she then have done?

If she'd done it a year ago, no, because the licence check would have confirmed her full licence.

How many times in that year has she had to produce that pass certificate?

If you follow that logic another step, she won't be sending it to DVLA in the next year, either, just in case...

1jim

Mildly_Miffed said:

1jim said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Two years from pass date is the absolute maximum she can wait before registering the pass with DVLA and upgrading her licence to full.

There is absolutely zero upside to waiting any longer than absolutely necessary, and a huge amount of potential downside. She has already taken a year longer than basic common sense suggests wise...

So this situation couldn't have arisen in the days after sending the paperwork off then? What would she then have done?

If she'd done it a year ago, no, because the licence check would have confirmed her full licence.

How many times in that year has she had to produce that pass certificate?

If you follow that logic another step, she won't be sending it to DVLA in the next year, either, just in case...

Again. Thank you for you most helpful advice 

TooManyPoints

So this situation couldn't have arisen in the days after sending the paperwork off then?

It could have happened on the way home from her test if she had been alone and removed her 'L' plates. Unlikely I know, as she would have to have had someone accompany her there and presumably they would have to get back. As well as that if it was a driving instructor, most insist on driving themselves after a successful test. But it certainly could have happened in the first few days. If she had submitted her licence to the examiner she would not even have had that - all she would have had was her pass certificate.

Of course the longer she delays the exchange the greater he likelihood of being stopped. But that isn't the point. If she was stopped, she had her provisional licence and pass certificate which is all she required.
 
There is no excuse for this. If the police are going to exercise their power to seize drivers' cars they need to know the law and they need to act sensibly.

The offence for which they seized your daughter's car.is " ...driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence authorising him to drive a motor vehicle of that class.". They accepted that she had not committed that offence and I can only think they confused being a licence holder and so entitled to drive with being in possession of a physical licence when they made the decision to seize her car. 

Okell

1jim said:

Okell said:

1jim said:

Okell said:

Seems to me this isn't about whether she was entitled to drive but rather about whether or not she can produce the required documents within the prescribed timescale.

@1jim - I'd start a thread over on FTLA pronto/ASAP if I were you:   Speeding and other criminal offences

(I say "if I were you" but it would be much better if your daughter posted herself.  For obvious reasons they can't be bothered wasting their time on "send three and fourpence we're going to a dance" scenarios... )

all sorted- she saw same officer by chance at the station who helped her with this
same documents produced and reviewed and car now ok to be released
reiterated that he didnt want to take car but was instructed to.

suspect a very unusual situation and somone in control room hadnt come across before. Thanks for the link to that board- didnt know was there 

Taking account of what you've said above - and also @TooManyPoints comments, - I'd be inclined to make a formal complaint against which ever police officer created this situation.

My initial view was that your daughter should have acted more promptly in getting her provisional licence converted to a full licence, but if it's true* that she needed to retain her provisional licence for ID purposes, then the reporting officer ought to have taken that into account at the appropriate stage of the process.


*  Of course if she didn't need to retain her provisional licence for ID purposes then this falls on her.  As a retired NHS manager who used to have some responsibility for student nurses, I can't stress how important it is for nurses to know traffic law...

... as a current nurse and nhs manager i wouldnt be inclined to make any complaint against public service- we can all make mistakes 

I'm neither a current nor former nurse but I am a retired NHS manager.

Are you of the view that compliants should not be made against people who provide a "public service"?

If that is your view I'm afraid I think you are deluded.

1jim

Okell said:

1jim said:

Okell said:

1jim said:

Okell said:

Seems to me this isn't about whether she was entitled to drive but rather about whether or not she can produce the required documents within the prescribed timescale.

@1jim - I'd start a thread over on FTLA pronto/ASAP if I were you:   Speeding and other criminal offences

(I say "if I were you" but it would be much better if your daughter posted herself.  For obvious reasons they can't be bothered wasting their time on "send three and fourpence we're going to a dance" scenarios... )

all sorted- she saw same officer by chance at the station who helped her with this
same documents produced and reviewed and car now ok to be released
reiterated that he didnt want to take car but was instructed to.

suspect a very unusual situation and somone in control room hadnt come across before. Thanks for the link to that board- didnt know was there 

Taking account of what you've said above - and also @TooManyPoints comments, - I'd be inclined to make a formal complaint against which ever police officer created this situation.

My initial view was that your daughter should have acted more promptly in getting her provisional licence converted to a full licence, but if it's true* that she needed to retain her provisional licence for ID purposes, then the reporting officer ought to have taken that into account at the appropriate stage of the process.


*  Of course if she didn't need to retain her provisional licence for ID purposes then this falls on her.  As a retired NHS manager who used to have some responsibility for student nurses, I can't stress how important it is for nurses to know traffic law...

... as a current nurse and nhs manager i wouldnt be inclined to make any complaint against public service- we can all make mistakes 

I'm neither a current nor former nurse but I am a retired NHS manager.

Are you of the view that compliants should not be made against people who provide a "public service"?

If that is your view I'm afraid I think you are deluded.

Is that what I said? But again, thank you for your valuable insight into the matter in hand which has now been resolved 

DullGreyGuy

Mildly_Miffed said:

There is absolutely zero upside to waiting any longer than absolutely necessary, and a huge amount of potential downside. She has already taken a year longer than basic common sense suggests wise...

Well there is an upside... a driving licence is broadly accepted as ID and is often a cheaper/simpler option than a Passport as the other standard and broadly accepted photo ID. 

No idea why, and not really that interested, but for whatever reason the OP decided to not go down the automatic update option because they needed it as ID when they passed and hence didnt surrender it. Maybe they were starting a new job in a week and had been told they needed photo ID, or a new bank account or whatever.

born_again

DullGreyGuy said:

No idea why, and not really that interested, but for whatever reason the OP decided to not go down the automatic update option because they needed it as ID when they passed and hence didnt surrender it. Maybe they were starting a new job in a week and had been told they needed photo ID, or a new bank account or whatever.

Glad OP has this now sorted.

There is that point.
But then again why not do it as soon as possible afterwards?
How often do we need to provide ID?  
At a guess they had forgotten to send it off afterwards. So this ditching car, could have just saved them from having a far worse situation later if they had not remembered. In being stopped for not having a valid full licence, which would effect ins etc. 

voluted

1jim said:

Okell said:

1jim said:

Okell said:

Seems to me this isn't about whether she was entitled to drive but rather about whether or not she can produce the required documents within the prescribed timescale.

@1jim - I'd start a thread over on FTLA pronto/ASAP if I were you:   Speeding and other criminal offences

(I say "if I were you" but it would be much better if your daughter posted herself.  For obvious reasons they can't be bothered wasting their time on "send three and fourpence we're going to a dance" scenarios... )

all sorted- she saw same officer by chance at the station who helped her with this
same documents produced and reviewed and car now ok to be released
reiterated that he didnt want to take car but was instructed to.

suspect a very unusual situation and somone in control room hadnt come across before. Thanks for the link to that board- didnt know was there 

Taking account of what you've said above - and also @TooManyPoints comments, - I'd be inclined to make a formal complaint against which ever police officer created this situation.

My initial view was that your daughter should have acted more promptly in getting her provisional licence converted to a full licence, but if it's true* that she needed to retain her provisional licence for ID purposes, then the reporting officer ought to have taken that into account at the appropriate stage of the process.


*  Of course if she didn't need to retain her provisional licence for ID purposes then this falls on her.  As a retired NHS manager who used to have some responsibility for student nurses, I can't stress how important it is for nurses to know traffic law...

I dont disagree about acting more promptly, however she has 2 years to exchange the certificate- if she sends off the certificate tomorrow what would there be to stop a similar incident/event occurring in 2 days time?  if there is a time limit imposed, as long as she exchanges within the time frame she is compliant with the law.  Im not sure what traffic law you think she has contravened?

as a current nurse and nhs manager i wouldnt be inclined to make any complaint against public service- we can all make mistakes 

There's nothing to stop her from getting involved in a similar incident even 2 seconds after she posts her licence off, no, but statistically, the longer she waits to send it off, the more likely she is to be involved in a similar incident.

Yes, she's entitled to wait but it's also potentially making a rod for her own back if she does so.

TooManyPoints

 In being stopped for not having a valid full licence, which would effect ins etc. 

How would it?

but it's also potentially making a rod for her own back if she does so.

You seem to be making the same mistake as the police officer who unlawfully seized her car.

She was driving perfectly legally. She was licensed to drive, had the necessary entitlement to do so and held (and produced at the roadside) the documents she needed to prove it. She had committed no offence. Why should she take steps to avoid the police doing something which they had no power to do?