We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

MSE News: More energy deals with NO standing charges finally on the cards

Options
1101113151620

Comments

  • GingerTim
    GingerTim Posts: 2,609 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 18 December 2024 at 7:23PM
    mels74 said:
    It was only a few years ago that I was with a no standing charges utility company for both gas and electric AND the unit rates were way lower than what they are now. In fact, I don't ever remember paying standing charges up until about 6 years ago (I did use to shop around alot and intentionally go for no standing charges, and could always find one). So whilst what Martin is putting forward may seem a good thing, it's still actually quite terrible! ...if you compare overall prices with a few years ago. How has the standing charge gone from zero pounds per year to over £330 per year?! And they think it's a good deal by removing this and increasing the unit rates ......NOT! 
    Greed, greed, greed ...excuses, excuses, excuses ....thats all it ever is
    Essentially, someone else had to pick up the tab for your zero standing charge tariff. 

    It's not about greed - zero standing charge tariffs as they used to be are simply not economically viable (and probably weren't then, either).
  • EssexHebridean
    EssexHebridean Posts: 24,424 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 19 December 2024 at 8:32AM
    I too used to be on a no SC tariff for gas when they were readily available - and this is another of those “selective memory” things I’m afraid - the unit rate was ALWAYS higher than those with a SC were paying, that was the trade off. For us, as super-low gas users (cooking only, at that time) it worked fine - we still saved. This was with Ebico on their “zero” contract, and for context, for a while they used to take a DD of £5 per month because that was the lowest they could take, and once a quarter used to refund us £8 or so. When they went and we were SOLR’d our new supplier wanted a DD of £10 a month - I had to point out that would mean that they would be billing us an entire year’s use inside 3 months - eventually they looked at the figures and settled on £2.50 a month I think it was! 

    Ultimately the tariff was there and available to us - and from a money saving point of view we would have been daft to do anything else, but being realistic it must have cost more for us to have the supply provided than we ever paid at that stage. Further along the line, and even once the no SC options had disappeared, that panned out as us having almost zero options for switching as pretty much no supplier wanted to take us on for gas only because of that low use - for a long while we could only get decent switch options by going dual fuel.

    I suspect that things will be very different when no SC tariffs are reintroduced - I’m not sure whether anything has been decreed yet about whether these will be allowed to be fixed term deals with exit charges - but if not then I can’t see how they will stop folk gaming the system - switching for the summer months to save the SC then switching back to standard variable or whatever in winter when it is economically better to pay a SC in return for lower unit rates on far higher use. 
    🎉 MORTGAGE FREE (First time!) 30/09/2016 🎉 And now we go again…New mortgage taken 01/09/23 🏡
    Balance as at 01/09/23 = £115,000.00 Balance as at 31/12/23 = £112,000.00
    Balance as at 31/08/24 = £105,400.00 Balance as at 31/12/24 = £102,500.00
    £100k barrier broken 1/4/25
    SOA CALCULATOR (for DFW newbies): SOA Calculator
    she/her
  • Ideally there would also be a third price cap with even higher standing charges but lower unit prices for very high users like me. I use 3 times the amount of gas than average because my house, unbeknown to me at the time of purchase, has solid walls that would cost about £15k to insulate.
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 18,245 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    Philip_P said:
    I use 3 times the amount of gas than average because my house, unbeknown to me at the time of purchase, has solid walls that would cost about £15k to insulate.
    Did you not get a survey? Or an EPC?
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Intelligent Go elec & Tracker gas / Vodafone BB / iD mobile. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 34 MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Not exactly back from my break, but dipping in and out of the forum.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs, Best kettle!
  • QrizB said:
    Philip_P said:
    I use 3 times the amount of gas than average because my house, unbeknown to me at the time of purchase, has solid walls that would cost about £15k to insulate.
    Did you not get a survey? Or an EPC?
    Yes I had both. They both incorrectly stated that the walls had a cavity. I could've started legal action but they would inevitably have found a way of wriggling out of it.
  • Philip_P said:
    Ideally there would also be a third price cap with even higher standing charges but lower unit prices for very high users like me. I use 3 times the amount of gas than average because my house, unbeknown to me at the time of purchase, has solid walls that would cost about £15k to insulate.
    I'd welcome that too, if it's feasible.  Like many others we're all-electric so our only choice is between high usage or very high; electricity is 4x the price of gas and our heat pump certainly doesn't get to 400% efficiency!

    (We have actually saved against the SVT with a smart tariff, but not everyone is able to make use of those.)
  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 3,501 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 21 December 2024 at 2:44AM
    Philip_P said:
    Ideally there would also be a third price cap with even higher standing charges but lower unit prices for very high users like me. I use 3 times the amount of gas than average because my house, unbeknown to me at the time of purchase, has solid walls that would cost about £15k to insulate.
    I'd welcome that too, if it's feasible.  Like many others we're all-electric so our only choice is between high usage or very high; electricity is 4x the price of gas and our heat pump certainly doesn't get to 400% efficiency!

    (We have actually saved against the SVT with a smart tariff, but not everyone is able to make use of those.)

    I am not convinced with Ofgem's TDCV for meter profile class 2 properties.

    Or rather those reliant holly on conventional electric heating. As it's based only on as installed meter types.  And for example those who have switched to SR - say because have scrapped their NSH - are often still counted - because the profile isn't changed from 02 to 01 - when the tariff is.

    And as their recent interim report shown - people who use an equivalent level of energy - like the tabled couples with kid - one dual fuel vs one all electric - the all electric home stands to be "burned" cost wise - with a simplistic shift SC back to unit - based on those levels.
  • There is no win win situation.
    Somewhere along the line we will have to pay for it either directly or indirectly, which given the inefficiencies of any government system will mean everyone will pay even more 🤷‍♀️🤣
    Standing charges increased to cover all the failed energy companies bailouts. This should be funded by general taxation so that the Standing charges can revert back to their previous level
  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 3,501 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 21 December 2024 at 2:08PM
    Philip_P said:
    There is no win win situation.
    Somewhere along the line we will have to pay for it either directly or indirectly, which given the inefficiencies of any government system will mean everyone will pay even more 🤷‍♀️🤣
    Standing charges increased to cover all the failed energy companies bailouts. This should be funded by general taxation so that the Standing charges can revert back to their previous level

    Yes initially the SoLR costs were - at iirc £64 split - in 2021 / 2 - half loaded onto electric SC, half onto gas unit rates - but these are now much lower.

    The biggest increase in electric SC has been the re-allocation of grid network costs from unit cost to fixed - if you read the Ofgem interim analysis - iirc around £103 - in last 2 years - far higher than the SoLR component - which has been reducing over time.

    If you don't want the rise in network costs - up iirc c£90pa since initial caps c5 years ago to continue - right to your MP - and ask them to abandon net zero targets - work needed to support electrification of home heating and cars implicit there in.

    A median dual fuel home is calculated at 11500 kWh of gas, by 2045/50 - most of that energy will be - in the green ideal world our current energy minister believes in - ideally electric, generated carbon free (hence another £22bn for pilot carbon capture schemes - £20 per domestic user per year for 25 years figures in media) and not just neutral.

    Even if you can go ashp at a cop of average of over 3 to use just a third overall of 11500 kWh of gas - thats still an increase of 140 % taking median domestic electric demand from 2700kWh to 6500 kWh of electricity.  
    And for those running 1 or more cars - for each - you have to then add BEV charging instead of petrol / diesel - at c3-4m/kWh and at say 8000 miles = 8000/3.5 = 2200 kWh per car.
    A family with 2 therefore jumping from 2700 to near 11,000 kWh per annum.  Quadroupling energy needs - and when overlapping increasing transmission needs - possibly right down to street / home level - especially for those with shared tap points (1 tap point from street - shared between neighbours).
    And the total spend until the network is built is in £bns pa (ESO estimate £3bn just for thermal capacity constraint by 2030) - and the future spend - again ESO "beyond 2030" - another £58bn on electricity grid for 5 years to 2035.   The costs of past changes is already in our bills and that component will grow progressively as it is spent.

Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 351K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.6K Spending & Discounts
  • 244K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.9K Life & Family
  • 257.3K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.