Landlocked property

ThisIsWeird

EssexHebridean said:

@ThisIsWeird I've not made an indemnity insurance application for the specific cover that the OP would need, but the standard declarations for them generally tend to include a declaration that a particular party has no knowledge of the matter being indemnified against - that one might be tricky to satisfy, in this case. 

There's the rub, indeed.

The vendor is suggesting an indemnity policy, but the OP has no control over who might, or might not, discuss this, and with whom - apart from themselves. I would imagine - hope - that anyone taking out an IP would, themselves, be asked if they have discussed the matter with the 3rd party, and it forms part of the policy's integrity that they answer 'non'. Therefore, should the vendor lie about this, they'd be liable.

Interesting issue - anyone on here have experience of such policies, and how this aspect is handled?

(Where's your user photo taken? I recognise the passing-place sign shape. There's a few on Lewis that, er, have many-decades-old bullet holes in them.)

EssexHebridean

@ThisIsWeird North Uist for that one - near the road-end at Sidinish (Locheport) - from memory from when I was last out there the same sign is still there (but the view has definitely changed rather, since the picture was taken!)  And yes - I'd heard about the "sport" of shooting at passing place signs - that one seems to be reserved for Lewis as far as I know?! 

Indemnity policies are a funny subject - they are generally priced relatively cheaply for a policy that will often stand for decades and pass from one owner (or mortgage co) to the next, and that is for the very good reason that they only incredibly rarely get claimed successfully on! 

ThisIsWeird

EssexHebridean said:

@ThisIsWeird North Uist for that one - near the road-end at Sidinish (Locheport) - from memory from when I was last out there the same sign is still there (but the view has definitely changed rather, since the picture was taken!)  And yes - I'd heard about the "sport" of shooting at passing place signs - that one seems to be reserved for Lewis as far as I know?! 

Indemnity policies are a funny subject - they are generally priced relatively cheaply for a policy that will often stand for decades and pass from one owner (or mortgage co) to the next, and that is for the very good reason that they only incredibly rarely get claimed successfully on! 

I'd love to hear of practical examples of Indemnity Policies.

Yes, shocking behaviour. The day they took our .22 away was probably a good one. That left only weedkiller pipe-bombs to amuse ourselves with.

GDB2222

EssexHebridean said:

@ThisIsWeird North Uist for that one - near the road-end at Sidinish (Locheport) - from memory from when I was last out there the same sign is still there (but the view has definitely changed rather, since the picture was taken!)  And yes - I'd heard about the "sport" of shooting at passing place signs - that one seems to be reserved for Lewis as far as I know?! 

Indemnity policies are a funny subject - they are generally priced relatively cheaply for a policy that will often stand for decades and pass from one owner (or mortgage co) to the next, and that is for the very good reason that they only incredibly rarely get claimed successfully on! 

A typical indemnity policy costs £100 or so. That's for a house worth say £500,000, which could become virtually valueless if there's no right of access.  That £100 is barely enough to cover administration costs, so you can't expect them to pay any significant claims as well. 

ThisIsWeird

GDB2222 said:

EssexHebridean said:

@ThisIsWeird North Uist for that one - near the road-end at Sidinish (Locheport) - from memory from when I was last out there the same sign is still there (but the view has definitely changed rather, since the picture was taken!)  And yes - I'd heard about the "sport" of shooting at passing place signs - that one seems to be reserved for Lewis as far as I know?! 

Indemnity policies are a funny subject - they are generally priced relatively cheaply for a policy that will often stand for decades and pass from one owner (or mortgage co) to the next, and that is for the very good reason that they only incredibly rarely get claimed successfully on! 

A typical indemnity policy costs £100 or so. That's for a house worth say £500,000, which could become virtually valueless if there's no right of access.  That £100 is barely enough to cover administration costs, so you can't expect them to pay any significant claims as well. 

The policy cost must vary with the perceived risk?
£100 is cheap! They can't possibly consider there's a significant chance of losing the whole house for that.
A policy in the OP's case is interesting. Should it be called on, then it would most likely first be used to legally challenge the other party's refusal to allow access. Allowing for the hopeful fact that the OP has a good case, the land owner would almost certainly capitulate before running up ~£100+k's worth of costs. Almost certainly LegProt - even if they have it - would laugh at them if asked to take it on.
So it could then come down to, "how much will you accept to provide deeds-written access to the house? Oh, and don't push your luck, 'cos our pockets are deep - yours are, literally, yours."

Statex2_2

Thanks for all the advice and replies.
The estate agent is pressurising me about proceeding with the purchase. My reply to him was that I needed the owner of the property to negotiate an easement for legal access to the property. I am awaiting his reply. 

GDB2222

ThisIsWeird said:

GDB2222 said:

EssexHebridean said:

@ThisIsWeird North Uist for that one - near the road-end at Sidinish (Locheport) - from memory from when I was last out there the same sign is still there (but the view has definitely changed rather, since the picture was taken!)  And yes - I'd heard about the "sport" of shooting at passing place signs - that one seems to be reserved for Lewis as far as I know?! 

Indemnity policies are a funny subject - they are generally priced relatively cheaply for a policy that will often stand for decades and pass from one owner (or mortgage co) to the next, and that is for the very good reason that they only incredibly rarely get claimed successfully on! 

A typical indemnity policy costs £100 or so. That's for a house worth say £500,000, which could become virtually valueless if there's no right of access.  That £100 is barely enough to cover administration costs, so you can't expect them to pay any significant claims as well. 

The policy cost must vary with the perceived risk?
£100 is cheap! They can't possibly consider there's a significant chance of losing the whole house for that.
A policy in the OP's case is interesting. Should it be called on, then it would most likely first be used to legally challenge the other party's refusal to allow access. Allowing for the hopeful fact that the OP has a good case, the land owner would almost certainly capitulate before running up ~£100+k's worth of costs. Almost certainly LegProt - even if they have it - would laugh at them if asked to take it on.
So it could then come down to, "how much will you accept to provide deeds-written access to the house? Oh, and don't push your luck, 'cos our pockets are deep - yours are, literally, yours."

I agree. I have not seen the premium quote for this particular issue, but a lot of indemnity policies are remarkably cheap, which means that they  must be structured so that the chances of a successful claim are practically nil. 

HHarry

GDB2222 said:

I agree. I have not seen the premium quote for this particular issue, but a lot of indemnity policies are remarkably cheap, which means that they  must be structured so that the chances of a successful claim are practically nil. 

 It might not be that the chances of a successful claim are nil, more that their definition of success may be different.

I’ve had a look at my policy (for a different issue), and whilst I’d love to think that they’d fight my case all the way to the highest court in the land, other remedies are to chuck the 3rd party a few quid to see if the problem goes away, or compensate me for the loss of value.  It is their discretion which remedy they choose, and undoubtedly they will use whichever is cheapest for them, but that might not align with what I’d want.

user1977

HHarry said:

GDB2222 said:

I agree. I have not seen the premium quote for this particular issue, but a lot of indemnity policies are remarkably cheap, which means that they  must be structured so that the chances of a successful claim are practically nil. 

 It might not be that the chances of a successful claim are nil, more that their definition of success may be different.

I’ve had a look at my policy (for a different issue), and whilst I’d love to think that they’d fight my case all the way to the highest court in the land, other remedies are to chuck the 3rd party a few quid to see if the problem goes away, or compensate me for the loss of value.  It is their discretion which remedy they choose, and undoubtedly they will use whichever is cheapest for them, but that might not align with what I’d want.

In practice with this sort of situation, the other party is most likely just to want some cash in return for formalising whatever the de facto position is. So the insurers negotiate that as a solution.

ThisIsWeird

user1977 said:

HHarry said:

GDB2222 said:

I agree. I have not seen the premium quote for this particular issue, but a lot of indemnity policies are remarkably cheap, which means that they  must be structured so that the chances of a successful claim are practically nil. 

 It might not be that the chances of a successful claim are nil, more that their definition of success may be different.

I’ve had a look at my policy (for a different issue), and whilst I’d love to think that they’d fight my case all the way to the highest court in the land, other remedies are to chuck the 3rd party a few quid to see if the problem goes away, or compensate me for the loss of value.  It is their discretion which remedy they choose, and undoubtedly they will use whichever is cheapest for them, but that might not align with what I’d want.

In practice with this sort of situation, the other party is most likely just to want some cash in return for formalising whatever the de facto position is. So the insurers negotiate that as a solution.

Would you consider this purchase a goer, assuming the indemnity policy will cover the value of the property - worst case scenario? And assuming the IP is watertight, of course.