Landlocked property

GDB2222

Statex2_2 said:

Herzlos said:

GDB2222 said:

Personally, I’d walk away unless I could buy the land at the same time.

Bingo. Owner of the house doesn't want you to talk to the owner of the land until it's too late. I suspect that'll be because the owner of the land doesn't want to sell, or they'd probably have already done some kind of deal.

If the landowner doesn't sell and refuses to formally acknowledge the right of way then you're stuck with a house you can't access or sell.

What's the relationship between the land owner and the house owner?

They are cousins.

They are clearly not collaborating on this sale, I’m afraid. I’d leave the seller to work on the access issue, and say that you’re keen to proceed once it’s been resolved by the seller and his cousin. 

It’s a shame, because it is probably a great property, and you are probably dying to go ahead. 

Statex2_2

Yes it is a shame because we have been searching for a long time and had to pull out before because of wood worm, dry rot, and problems insuring a property because it was near a small brook,although it had never flooded. Another had several preserved trees. One had large cracks and  a garden obtained by adverse possesion.Another we were gazumped. etc. O well have to keep looking. our grandchildren will be the ones who will be the most upset as they were so looking forward to it. So difficult to find a suitable property that is affordable. Although the house has these issues it was not underpriced or below market value. Just wasted so much time  several months whilst they sorted out  all the other legal problems.

Herzlos

It should be much quicker for cousins with some kind of relationship to sort out the issues before the sale, than for you to come in later and try to get some kind of resolution.

Can you buy the land registry info for the land part and get in touch with the cousin directly to see about selling it or getting access on the deeds? Does the cousin have a house on that land too or is it just land? What do they do with it?

Alderbank

Slinky said:

i_like_cats said:

I take it this isn’t the landlocked property in question?  Read the full description including the Important Note at the end!:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/142651199#/?channel=RES_BUY

Who in their right mind bought that!

The adjoining owner?

GDB2222

Statex2_2 said:

Yes it is a shame because we have been searching for a long time and had to pull out before because of wood worm, dry rot, and problems insuring a property because it was near a small brook,although it had never flooded. Another had several preserved trees. One had large cracks and  a garden obtained by adverse possesion.Another we were gazumped. etc. O well have to keep looking. our grandchildren will be the ones who will be the most upset as they were so looking forward to it. So difficult to find a suitable property that is affordable. Although the house has these issues it was not underpriced or below market value. Just wasted so much time  several months whilst they sorted out  all the other legal problems.

This isn’t necessarily a dead duck. At the moment, the seller is hoping to bluff his way through this. Indeed, he may have a right of way across the land through usage. But, this isn’t a situation that you want to get into, as there’s too many things that can go wrong. 

The right way to handle this is for the seller to acquire the land and/or to get a formal right of way. I fear that you may be asked to pay towards this, but hopefully not too much. 

FlorayG

Surely the vendor will have the same enquiry from any potential purchaser and is never going to be able to sell it without the guaranteed access? It's in his interest to help you buy the land
Depends on where in the country you live of course but I bought a small field in similar situation that had been separated from the house ( no access issues here) and I paid £18,000 per acre for it; but to buy it WITH the house it would have cost a lot more because of course it would have vastly increased the value of the house

Statex2_2

Yes that would be a solution. I have also been looking at the indemnity insurance aspect and as someone already said if a third party is informed the insurance is invalid. Obviously the house owner may speak to his cousin who owns the land and the insurance may then be invalidated. The other point is the value of the house, landlocked property is obviously worth much less than the current market value. I know the seller will not reduce the price and the owner of the land can can charge an excessive amount to sell it or even grant access. I know a builder/developer and he calls such land "a ransome strip". I will approach the agent and state that I am not happy to proceed until the access is legalised.

I am not too happy with my conveyancer as all he said was that a statement and insurance was all he could do He also said that the correct procedure ia a deed of grant but that is expensive and time consuming and may open a can of worms. He is supposed to be representing my best interest, not getting a quick fix to get his fees.

FlorayG

Perhaps you could just purchase the access strip and not the whole field? 
Also I just realised the land isn't worth more as attached to the house in your case because the house is essentially worthless without it
Are the house owner and the field owner not on speaking terms? I would bet money they are not

ThisIsWeird

Statex2_2 said:

Yes that would be a solution. I have also been looking at the indemnity insurance aspect and as someone already said if a third party is informed the insurance is invalid. Obviously the house owner may speak to his cousin who owns the land and the insurance may then be invalidated. The other point is the value of the house, landlocked property is obviously worth much less than the current market value. I know the seller will not reduce the price and the owner of the land can can charge an excessive amount to sell it or even grant access. I know a builder/developer and he calls such land "a ransome strip". I will approach the agent and state that I am not happy to proceed until the access is legalised.
I am not too happy with my conveyancer as all he said was that a statement and insurance was all he could do He also said that the correct procedure ia a deed of grant but that is expensive and time consuming and may open a can of worms. He is supposed to be representing my best interest, not getting a quick fix to get his fees.

I suggest you need proper advice, from a specialist property solicitor*. This is not remotely a unique situation (as that other extreme example has shown!), and specialist solicitors will know what is required to make a secure purchase.

For example, an indemnity policy may insist (as they do) that you do not inform the concerned party of the issue, but it would clearly be unreasonable for your policy to be forfeit if someone else did without your prompt or knowledge. And, since the two other parties clearly know each other, you can expect there's a good chance the landowner does 'know' roughly what's going on. The point you'd need to have confirmed is - does that affect your policy, as you have adhered to its conditions? So, point one - can you have the indemnity policy nailed down on that point; as long as you say now't to the landowner, it should remain valid?

The indemnity policy should be comprehensive, and presumably have a value equal to or higher than the whole house! Ie, your total losses should the access be blocked, and the landowner 'win' the following legal case.

Your vendor's 'statement of truth' needs to be watertight. A pro property conveyancer will need to determine this - is it enough? Also, whether it should contain a further statement from the vendor that the matter hasn't been discussed with the landowner?

Only with such professional, itself insured, advice would I consider this for a nano.

* There are plenty online specialist property solicitors, and it's quite easy to filter out any cowboys. We were considering a property with an aggie tie a number of years ago, and one of these online solicitors was happy to explore the gist of the situation at surprising length at no cost - their 'initial enquiry' part. You have some key points to ask - perhaps including what I suggested above - so they should be able to answer these 'based on the info you have provided'.

EssexHebridean

FlorayG said:

Surely the vendor will have the same enquiry from any potential purchaser and is never going to be able to sell it without the guaranteed access? It's in his interest to help you buy the land
Depends on where in the country you live of course but I bought a small field in similar situation that had been separated from the house ( no access issues here) and I paid £18,000 per acre for it; but to buy it WITH the house it would have cost a lot more because of course it would have vastly increased the value of the house

I would imagine that the plan is to hope for a purchaser who is willing to take the risk, then once they have bought, the cousin refuses to grant any rights, sell any land or whatever, leaving the new owner of the property unable to access it. At that point, and with the issue laid clear, I imagine that the hope is that it will be put back on the market at a much reduced price and can then be bought by either the cousin, or by someone know to the cousin who is wanting the house, but not at it's usual market value. 

@ThisIsWeird I've not made an indemnity insurance application for the specific cover that the OP would need, but the standard declarations for them generally tend to include a declaration that a particular party has no knowledge of the matter being indemnified against - that one might be tricky to satisfy, in this case.